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Some good points have been made to me about my last post that I think I should address.

#asknostr at end of this post.

When I posted this, I was considering all kinds of “intervene” to be covered at the far left of the graphic. This includes both merely verbal and potentially physically violent situations.

Really, these should have been two separate categories. Men who physically intervene to prevent rape ARE HEROIC. That isn’t basic decency. They are risking their lives.

And even if it isn’t a violent fight, but putting your hand over a cup so the other guy at the party can’t put a pill in it and he knows you are watching, I still call that heroism.

If I had made this graphic, I would not have crossed out “heroic” even for only verbal intervention, by which I mean calling out someone else’s “joke” or victim-blaming. I tend to disagree, at least in this case, with those who think there is no moral obligation to speak up in these particular situations, but I still think it’s beyond “decent;” I think it is GOOD to speak up.

The graphic only mentions men as accountable, but of course women are accountable too, and men are also victims of rape culture, for example, the acceptance / embracing of prison rape. I think we should speak out against all of it.

What do you think — are social dissociation and ostracism more effective tools than speaking out against things people say?

I don’t think the first can be that effective without the second, at least for in-person interactions. nostr:note1ke43h9cmzpvehdq6pldlx3rzmv674tynr3z9ekkvyswcs395j4kqcws7k9

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Discussion

zeph 10mo ago

Makes me think of the film Antonia’s Line.

Social dissociation, ostracism, speaking up, speaking out, defending—all are necessary. Obviously there is some situation dependence for which response is most effective in the moment.

karo 10mo ago

social dissociation and ostracism leads to those people entrenching themselves deeper into their bubbles. I think when you come across those people you should make your disgust known and speak out against them. "dude, gross. that's inappropriate." *leave*

when it's a friend of a friend at a party or some guy at the club, one should say something and extricate from the situation. Doing both has the biggest effect, I think.

The trouble is when that person is someone closer to you, a long time friend, a cousin, a brother, an uncle or maybe your own father? You must say something but ostracizing them might be difficult.