I really like Liechtenstein. The earth is big enough to accommodate a quarter of a million Lichtensteins. I just don't want it to be the only thing. Democracies have a tendency to fall into tyranny and are too warlike, IMO. Power structures explicitly built on compromise trend towards giving advantage to special groups, and the game of life becomes all about getting into the right special group.

Monarchies, on the other hand, get accused of tyranny more often than they deserve it. A monarch is the owner of the land. I dispute any democracy's right to dispossess a land owner, for any reason.

Both can coexist. But I think we should recognize that democracies are, by far, the most warlike and tyrannical. They should be limited in size to the distance a man can walk in one day.

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Can it be that you make a hypothesis based on two democratic countries that are regularly involved with wars? The US, which has all military power within the hands of the President alone. And Israel, which has been under several destructive attacks from its neighbours.

Or you got other examples of democratic countries that inniciated a war to give evidence to your point?

I give a List of offensive wars auf authoritarian countries to dismantel your point:

Deutsches Kaiserreich WW 1 1914-1918

Faschistisches Nazireich WW 2 1939-1945

Chinese communist party against Peoples republic of China 1945-49

Southcorean war 1945-now

Afghanistan 1948-1949

Iraque 1949

Myanmar Burmese conflict

Russia to attack on chechnia 94-96

Yugoslavian wars

All kartel wars

I place communism under the category of democracy. I'm not saying communism has never been tried - rather, the tyranny of it is the epitome of the will of the people, aka democracy.

Kaiser era Germany didn't start ww1 - the Serbians did. Geemany had a treaty obligation to their ally, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and they fulfilled their obligation to their ally when it was attacked. The Austrian Empire was less "empire-y" than it sounds - it was a loose and relatively decentralized state that was mostly just a compromise among monarchs, each with far more autonomy that the so-called "states" in the supposedly freest country on earth now. The Black Hand killed the wrong guy, since the monarchy was trying to reform in favor of cultural autonomy. There's very good reason to believe they were an intelligence operation run by Great Britain, but I'm rusty on details, so I recommend delving into it yourself. At the end of the war, both Germany and Austria tried multiple times to make peace and the "allies" refused. That makes us the aggressors, regardless of how it started.

If you look at Renaissance era Europe, you see a bunch of small republics, mostly in north Italy and the Baltic coastline. The vast majority of wars in that era were between these small republics. Professional soldiering began in north Italy, where they were called "condottiere." Swiss soldiers were involved in all wars in Europe up until recently, and they've been a pioneer in democracy.

More monarchical places were much less interested in wars, or the wars were more about a king restoring the rights in the vassal arrangement. France's appenages were vassals bound by family ties and were notably less violent than the republics to their east. The eastern edge of the holy roman empire had fewer republics and generally settled their disputes at the electoral level of the HRE - princes from Bohemia, Austria, and Brandenburg were usually elected. The republics were ineligible for election because they lacked anyone electable, and as a result they had more to gain by using war to settle disputes.

After the French revolution, France became warlike. Before, it had the power to win wars but rarely engaged in them. Napoleon was a dictator, no doubt, but that's only after winning over the support of the populace, so there's an argument to be made that he was quite Democratic. England's wars grew in frequency and intensity after England gained a Parliament. The corruption between debt paper and Parliament caused England to militarily conquer a quarter of the planet's land. In the US, our democratic ideals did nothing to protect the native Americans from us. In fact, you can see that European monarchs generally abided by the treaties they made with the native Americans, whereas the more democratic America did not.

Back to communism, remember that the core of their system was the "Soviet" or local council. That's what Soviet means - council. They believed they were building democracy. We can look at history and pontificate about it nor being democratic, but that's not what they believed when they were doing it. Communism has no appeal outside the range of democratic ideals.

If you look at economy, what we see is the democratic use of credit to devalue the currency for any and all causes. Monarchies tended to stick to metals for currency. Credit money is effectively enslavement because it steals from savings, which is stored up work. I think its remarkable how quickly the US pivoted from chattel slavery to credit slavery. Its as if democracy literally can't work without slavery.

Why would that be? I say, because democracy is a power sharing arrangement. Sharing power means compromising with the powerful. Oligarchs will never stop pursuing their self interest. Democracy gives a mandate to an elected person to broker power - if they fail to do so, they have a failed state. They **_must_** give benefits to the oligarchs, in which I include all protected classes.

The nature of power is that it is conserved, in much the same way as the conservation of momentum or energy. If one person holds power, a proportional amount must be lost by others. In your city, theres a certain number of people with power, and you can fit it on one page, one name per line. Everyone else is merely competing to enter or remain in a special class. If you get your name on that hypothetical list, it is only at the expense of someone falling off the list. The only thing clever about a democracy is that it hides this reality from the average person. That's beneficial to the powerful people. But because power is shared, your position on the list is precarious. One way to accrue power without violating the Conservation of Power within your frame, is to take it from someone outside your frame. That's why democracies become a conspiracy to make war. It's not an intentional conspiracy (probably) but that's how the incentives align. Because power is conserved. Whatever you feel about power, it itself has its own behavior.

largely in major agreement with most of this note

I think according to this article you are right, that democracies can act to war as well:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/09735984211042095?journalCode=jnra

But I would like to point out, that Democracy is rather a group of government forms, than a monolythic one. As soon as the 4 essential powers; Executive, Legislative and Judicative, being the fourth a fee press to report on the actions of the other three.

Then there has to be elected representatives in parlament.

So Democracy is still a wide spectrum on how deep the people can actively participate in the state. To give the positive example of Switzerland. Here people can directly vote for a new paragrapf in the constitution. And every level of law can be legally denied by voting too. To my knowledge no other country has this kind of democracy, where people have any direct influence on law creation. What is crutial in my eyes, since many socalled democracies give the people only indirect access to lawmaking. Is like when free software would only allow to choose the developer, but you would have to use their code independently of their implementation. And would have no right to tamper and self compile code.

So I want to state, that there are no democratic threat actors, that allow voting on active wars and their budgets.

And a personal question: Do you beliefe, you will always need someone to create the rules for you or you think to be able to live in a way, society can exist peacefully? You think you need someone to allow you getting into action or you want to decide for your own?

Good thoughts here. I don't believe anyone should tell another person how to live. I can make my own choices. You can make yours.

Liechtenstein is slightly more direct in its democracy than Switzerland. That's why I mentioned it - Switzerland too, though I should've gone more into it.

In the idealized version of democracy, I have no complaint. If it worked as well as it looks on paper, no problem. I just don't see it playing out. Liechtenstein seems good, though.

Thanks for mentioning Liechtenstein. Have never informed myself, how Liechtenstein is governed.

I am with you when it comes to the application of an ideal democratic system it is har to implement. Hard since all people who hold a lot of power today will loose it, when it is renovated towards ideal Democracy. So no question always when a country does this people with power will invest a lot of propaganda and advertisment in every form to create an idea of unorganized chaos, that could come with democratisation.

Only that in practice many very democratic groups work very well. When looking on Projects like Debian or Arch or even big companies like Google, which are successful and give their employees a lot of freedom in their manner to work.

And since I was listening to a podcas about Niklas Luhmanns Systemtheorie https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemtheorie_(Luhmann)

I am quiet sure that ell types of authoritarian systems are to some part a ponzi system. And this part grows until it comes to a forced collapse.

This since every system has its reason to exist fore and another part that is invested to keep the system in place (defend it). Every person that gets to a lot of power gets the opportunity to use some of it for his or her personal wealth, which is a kind of extortion of those who pay for it. This part of extortion can grow untilthere are more people lifing from extortion or corruption than those who create. And authoritarian regimes are chronically lacking selfcorrection, since critics are silenced most of the times until there is only yes man.

Yep. All true.

But I also think that the core of power is education. Every person that is well educated in a language has some basic mathematical and logical skills already has that bases of power inbetween his ears.

Disagree. That's potential, not power. Perhaps that's akin to mechanical power. Being able to do things is useful and could be leveraged into power, but power in the human context is more like the ability toake exceptions to rules. Most math professors can't do that.

So to say in a communist way. Those who are more equal are the powerful?

Can be one expression of power. I think being able to do stuff is power too. Liberties on is actively acting in are powers I would say. Like to meet with others discuss, plan something and do it.

Generic speaking I would frame power to align reality to my needs. And even the most known "powerful" people like Putin, Trump and Xi are not powerful in every way. FOr example they often do not have the power to go partying without bodyguards or having a picknick in whatever Park spontanously. Or going somewhere unrecognized without masking up.

They make up for it with Epstein parties and Pizza Gate parties.

Haha but to mee this does not seem the same level of freedom. Sad souls in their sad parties.

Seems like a bad way to spend a life

I now read a bit about Liechtenstein. "Liechtenstein is slightly more direct in its democracy than Switzerland." is probably not correct.

Comparison:

In Liechtenstein the people can propose laws and enact laws. But the monarch gets to say if they are accepted or not.

In Switzerland people can enforce an optional referendum to challenge any law that passed the parliament. Also there are popular initiatives to write a new law into constitution. In both of them noone is above the people. So the only difference seems to me, that Liechtenstein has a Monarch with a veto, where Switzerland has the people with a veto.

In general Switzerland is a strongly federated state. So everything a county can handle is managed by it. When not they can pass sovereignity a level up to the canton. Same for the canton and only a very small part is then to organize by the national state.

the cool thing about Liechtenstein is that communities can opt out of the state.

https://mises.org/mises-wire/what-we-can-learn-liechtenstein

Its possible that my source for that was biased - most of what I know about both states is from Prince Hans' book, "The State in the Third Millennium." Highly recommend, although I think the middle of the book is a slog to get through.