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If individual choice is the base reality of meaning, it has terrible implications. If we are purely self-actualizing, transsexuality, suicide, and self-harm are Good in an ultimate sense. There's also no basis on which you can establish harm. If I am the center of my universe, I can't believe in an Other. It requires a transcendent reality to bind individuals together.

One book I think about constantly is Human Forever by James Poulos, which traces the trajectory of atomistic (progressive) individualism to the ironic outcome of erasure of individuality. It's a sobering logic, and one which anarchists are particularly vulnerable to. This is something I'll be arguing specifically against in the book.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago 💬 2

One of my favorite quotes on Atheism, "I've raped and murdered everyone that I want to."

You have not just gods existence as an axiom but the idea that normal people want to do nothing but horrible things unless some greater power compels them to do better.

Think hard about what you would really want if you didn't have the threat of god. If you still believe that about the nature of man it says more about you the Christian than me the Atheist.

I've raped and murdered everyone that I want to. Are you saying YOU haven't?

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Discussion

hodlbod 9mo ago

That is itself a strawman version of evil. Just because you haven't murdered someone makes you the buddha?

Think about it this way instead: at what point in your life have you ever 1. successfully executed any non-trivial plan, 2. been perfectly happy with who you are, or 3. managed to avoid hurting anyone else (emotionally, economically, physically)? Only a deluded egoist would think he had passed all three tests.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago

You aren't perfect either.

The point of the quote is that being an atheist doesn't cause me to not want to try or to have directionally opposite ideas of right and wrong.

You and other christians in the thread have with varying degrees of bluntness and crassness basically said that all atheists are spending all our time running trans drag pedophile library hour. I'm none of those things I'm being accused of.

I could come here saying that all churches were pedophile rings and all christians are groomers. Confirmed cases of molestation only I'd have more evidence to prove my case than you could find for self identified atheist groups. Would you feel the desire to defend yourself from the obvious slander?

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago 💬 1

Spoken like someone who grew up in a western society that was guided by Christian values.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago 💬 1

My values are not derived from your god or his book. A fair bit of evil around the world has been done in his name and based on his books throughout history.

Remember that your book warns you that the devil knows the scripture and can quote it to serve his purpose. I'll leave it at that because I'm not here to point out the moral failings of christianity or the bible.

My purpose in this thread is to show that atheists are regular folk who just happen to not believe in your god the same way you happen to not believe in Odin.

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago 💬 1

Calm down, reddit atheist. I'm not even religious. I just acknowledge the effects that Christianity and European genetics have had on society. Many, if not most, cultures are filled with people who want to rape and kill, but are only stopped by the threat of harsh corporal punishment. Look at what happens when they are introduced to European societies.

You should take a step back and consider the effect that the Christian program has had on the minds of people and think about how things might be different if there were a different program running.

People are predisposed to believe in something supernatural. It is part of how we evolved as a species. You can't just go ripping out the foundational religion and expect everything to be fine.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago 💬 1

I'm not on reddit or into eugenics. Moving on from your blatant racism there.

Honor cultures breed violence. We have honor cultures with multiple religions and non honor cultures with multiple religions. Christianity even transitioned from honor culture to non honor culture in most of the world. Culture drives religion selection and emphasis on certain rules in the religion not the other way around.

No mixed fibers plain as day and Jesus Christ himself said every law of the old testament stands until the rapture. That is in the bible. Wanna make a bet on what the nearest Christian is wearing?

I'll skip over the real honor culture garbage from the old testament rather than add to how disgusting you already turned the thread with your racism.

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago 💬 1

Your talking points are run-of-the-mill, reddit tier angsty teenage atheism 101. You are saying them like they are some profound thing that no one has ever heard of, instead of what they are, which is a 20 year old, trite attempt at provocation.

You can cry racism all you want, but that's not an argument. Genes are real, they affect behaviour, and they cluster into varying population groups, which is a large part of differing cultures. Im sorry that this fact is hard for you to deal with.

My guess is, you are under 23 years old. Probably under 20, in which case, this is all excusable. If not, your existence and stunted belief system is just kind of sad.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago 💬 1

Atheists were attacked in this thread. I came in here to say I'm an atheist and those things that are being said are strawman that don't represent me.

All the provocations are you and others attacking. I didn't invite you here and I haven't ad hominem attacked you like you have repeatedly done to me.

Other than pointing out the obvious racism in the phrase "European genetics" I haven't said anything negative about you, only disagreed with your positions. You however feel that I must be an inferior person for holding different beliefs. You attack me not my position repeatedly.

I came here to prove that atheists are kinder than the average non atheist. Thank you for the help.

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago 💬 1

So, yea, probably a teenager. You didn't ad hominem, you used poisoning the well, if you want to play the logical fallacy game.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago 💬 1

Another strawman. You decide that I'm a teenager with no evidence to my age then dismiss my entire position because all teenagers are dumb which also isn't true.

I'm still waiting for my any of my points to be addressed by any of your responses. Lashing out at random traits you assume I have then bashing additional people who have those qualities is all you've done.

Where did I poison the well? Even when you have made clearly racist statements I haven't used them to dismiss every point you made, only that specific statement. When I state a fallacy I don't just yell the name of the fallacy and run away like it was a smoke bomb. I tell you where you made it and how it fits the definition.

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago 💬 1

"You decide that I'm a teenager with no evidence"

There is evidence.

"then dismiss my entire position because all teenagers are dumb"

That's not why I'm being dismissive. It's more to do with your talking points being about 10 -15 years out of date. Nobody cares that you're an atheist. It's not some identity to cling to. It's just a worn out internet personality type.

"I'm still waiting for my any of my points to be addressed"

Which points would those be?

"Where did I poison the well?"

Here: nostr:nevent1qqs0n96xfg8kgwaqdn2343ra9qttetkpgru806whk9rcwkkv0raltxqpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qqyxlpj2gl6dt2nfvkl4yyrl6pr2hjkycrdh2dr5r42n7ktwn7pdqxpqqqqqqzf5pghy

You just keep saying "that's racist" with nothing intelligible to add. It's crazy to think that this is how I came off 15 years ago when militant atheism was really welling up online. I used to talk very similar to the way you talk now.

The problem is, you are having this conversation while attached to an identity (pseudonymous as it may be). This will cause you to unconsciously accept or reject things based on social pressures that you don't even realize you have. That's another part of my dismissiveness. It feels probably not worth it to have the conversation, because your identity and reputation are more important than the truth.

Bill Cypher 9mo ago

I'm wondering if you are a kid now. I'm clearly a teenager but my talking points are 15 years out of date. 4 year olds who have mastered Dawkins soundbites but don't learn anything new before they turn 20 are common after all.

The four horseman days weren't an atheist movement, it was Anti-Theist. The point was to attack religious people with the faults of their religion. I have gone out of my way to avoid running down the litany of biblical instructions that are appalling to modern christians in this thread.

I felt the need to point out one of those bible rules that we ignore because of our culture to make the point we fit our religion to our cultural morals not the other way around. I picked mixed fibers because it was the least offensive example. If you truly were a part of the Anti-Theist movement you know how dark I could have gone there. I have clearly updated my approach.

You can't say no one cares I'm an atheist. People in this thread said that anyone who doesn't believe in god would obviously be guilty of a variety of moral faults. Some of them pretty offensive to me. I joined in here to say "I'm an atheist and I do none of those things you accuse us of." I even made a post on my timeline about being open about your atheism so those strawmen aren't the only atheist people know.

You explicitly said you believe different races have different moral reasoning capabilities and European genes are better at it. That doesn't even require wokeness, that's 100 year old dictionary definition racism. Stating that you believe in facts that you explicitly said you believe in isn't poisoning the well. You were working those same racist talking points at the time so it wasn't even off topic.

Jimmy Bond 9mo ago

So, you want the Christians to take your well reasoned atheist talking points seriously, despite the fact that they find your lack of belief in god to be morally repugnant.

However, you refuse to even engage with race realist talking points, because you find the genetic explanation for behaviour to be morally repugnant.

You might think that you're being much more tactful with your replies, but I'm telling you, they look exactly the same as they did 15 years ago. You are replying just like I would have back then. The total dismissiveness of the positive impacts of Christianity is what really turns people off. You are not fully considering the downsides of leaving a vacuum where a decent religion once was. It's not a coincidence that "woke" filled that void for many people. It's basically just christian morality inverted and turned against its own people.