Nostr Web Client

1M sat zaps hit different st 50K versus 20K 😂

ภ๏รtг๏ภคยt 1y ago

Or we all trust eachother a bit less, because we know eachother a bit better than we did a year ago and nostr is also much bigger now making it harder to determine who should actually be in your WoT....

I would say my WoT has grown much larger over the past year, especially after meeting many Nostriches in person.

ภ๏รtг๏ภคยt 1y ago

Yeah, most can't afford to do such though unfortunately.

If I had the extra money I woulda met yall back in November in Nashville, but my car needed repairs. But at least I don't have a 30k loan out for a car... lol

Not having the money to travel to events and such to actually meet the people your cracking jokes with on nostr, greatly limits your nostr WoT. Leading me to think; How do us who can't afford such, increase our nostr WoT? 🤔

Powermeat 1y ago

Fun to think that everyone can have a different a WoT score with different people. Someone may have a very high score with democrats and a low score with republicans or vice versa. I probably won't have a very high score with people who only speak Japanese but it might be high enough that my comments won't be automatically filtered out

Perfect examples. We'd have the highest WoT score in our most active and embedded communities.

In my conversations about WoT, people often ask whether WoT will just result in more echo chambers. It’s a fair question. My response usually is that if you explicitly want a better echo chamber, you’ll be able to build it. It’s permissionless so no one can stop you. But I think most people would like tools to help them discover when they are being misled by their echo chamber. We can build those tools with WoT. We will be able to ask: what does tribe X think about topic Y? Or what does not(tribe X) think about topic Y? The ability to make these types of queries will be super interesting and informative.

Where can our web of trust be visualized, or evaluated? Seems similar to a credit score, which is a free market development to identify “trustworthy borrowers.” With a credit score, there are known ways and methods to improve your score and “become more trustworthy” to lenders.

Web of trust should be no different. Individuals should have visibility into their WoT, and have practical means of bettering their relationships and building trust.

Coracle has WoT scores. I don't know if other clients do as well at this time. I know that Shopstr is looking to add it in the future.

I think a way to improve your score would be to interact, engage, and buy/sell goods and services. Just like we would IRL.

Possibly those could be methods to “improve your score” but also possibly easily manipulated and not necessarily a good judgement of quality or trustworthiness.

It will be interesting to know the means by which coracle or other clients “calculate” such scores, and if they will become standardized in their calculations, completely unstandardized, or possibly similar to credit scores have a small group of various “calculators” competing to provide WoT scores using their various independent methods.

hodlbod 1y ago

Coracle just counts how many people you follow follow a given person (with some accounting for mutes)

Sounds more like a web of follows. trust seems an odd word choice at best and misleading at worst. Maybe just call it “web of popularity”??

Reid Walley 1y ago

Web of Trust is cool. It’s a person’s reputation built from the ground up via P2P interactions that slowly spread throughout a community.

Whereas credit scores are from The Man tryna herd peeps into consumer silos for targeted advertising.

Powermeat 1y ago

I believe Coracle just uses popularity as a proxy for WoT. Correct me if I'm wrong nostr:npub1jlrs53pkdfjnts29kveljul2sm0actt6n8dxrrzqcersttvcuv3qdjynqn I'd like to see something more like the Facebook "friend" a follow the follows back is worth more and even better if there's comments and zaps back and forth.

Seems like a poor metric for “trust”

hodlbod 1y ago

I'm not sure what I think of "friend". Follow is more granular, since friends are a subset of follows. Also, if friend status is justification for access controls, like to family photos or whatnot, that won't fly on nostr. You would instead have to share keys or grant relay access for that. Interesting possibilities though.

hodlbod 1y ago

What's the difference between popularity and WoT? Coracle uses 1-deep WoT, so it is relative to your follows.

DefiantDandelion 1y ago

I think it clearly is a kind of social credit score. But the words “social credit score” are so beaten up no one knows what the words mean. In this case a web of trust is decentralized. We each make independent choices about who we will trust and the outcome is you can see who the people you trust also trust in making the decision on who you will add for receiving services etc.

So It’s a lot like human to human trust. The problem with the “social credit score” dystopian scenario is that people aren’t choosing individually a central authority is choosing what you get. And that power will be abused and manipulated.

Exactly. Just like some people might see the evils of fiat and conclude money is the root of all evil. But the answer is not to get rid of money; the answer is to decentralized it. Same is true for web of trust.

People have tried and failed to get WoT to work since the introduction of pgp in 1991. Here’s my stab at why they’ve failed, and what we must do to succeed.

The problem is that people have always jumped to the end goal, and skipped the beginning, the foundation.

The end goal is for your WoT to curate facts and information. Everything from what’s the best coffee shop to what’s happening at the front lines of a war zone. Everything from subjective opinion to objective facts.

But we have skipped the foundation, which is this: your WoT needs to curate the language itself. The digital tools that we use to talk about facts and information. Currently these tools are curated by digital stewards: repo managers, w3c committees on standards, etc. We need our WoT to take over the responsibilities of every one of these digital stewards. Only then will we see WoT reach its potential.

This is what I’m working on, btw.

The protocol I am using is divided into two main sections: the concept graph, which describes how information is represented, and the grapevine, which describes how it is curated. The concept graph describes how to ask a question and the grapevine describes how your WoT answers it.

Ultimately, this protocol will be encoded using the concept graph and managed by your grapevine. Your grapevine is going to manage the protocol and the code that allows your grapevine to exist! Gonna take a long time to get there but it will happen. But even before we reach that point, we’ll be able to build some useful platforms.

Imagine a nostr apps page that enables your grapevine to manage a list of nostr apps, a hierarchy of categories of apps, and assigns each app to the appropriate category(ies).

Imagine a Wikipedia where you pick the ppl who pick the ppl who pick the ppl who manage the articles.

Imagine Yelp where your WoT weeds out fake reviews. Imagine being able to pay a few sats for reviews from trusted sources, thus incentivizing users to enter high quality info into the system (bc when ppl see low quality info, the WoT will decrease their trust score in that context).

Imagine legacy social media minus all the bots, scammers and trolls, with better ability to find the content you want.

Every legacy platform will be rebuilt. And your identity and all associated information will be portable.

No more walled gardens.

Relic 1y ago

This model works. I grew up on a farm..most neighbors were in the web of trust.. a couple weren’t.

When WoT farmers needed help, or referrals the entire WoT was there. No credit scores, just trusted reputation.

Love it. It's how my small town essentially operated when I was growing up too.

vincenzzo 1y ago

I quite like the WoT idea. Nice quick way to see if someone is 'known'. Not a be all end all stat but a nice stat.