Replying to Avatar Jeff Swann

I love the "know them by their fruits" refrences/passages. They were actually one of the keys to me realizing that there is a lot of metaphor used in the texts. When Jesus recognizes Nathaniel by the shade of the tree under which he sits, it is a reference to "know them by their fruit." When Jesus "kills the fig tree" I think he is actually just predicting that Israel (the fig tree) is falling into economic & political corruption.

When I point out that we are finite beings with a limited amount of time, resources, & even mental space, which makes it literally impossible to love everyone the way you love a sibling or friend. Churchers will then tell me that there are many different Greek words that we translate all to just "love," which is basically proof that we have translation problems. But somehow they isolate that fact from everything else they already believe about the Bible.

I know a lot of Churchers who have done nothing but drive people away from the church because instead of trying to actually understand a complicated text, & deal with honest questions, they insist on a flat interpretation that allows them to judge & condemn the people around them. More often than not they tell people they will pray for them as a way to imply they need help. They tell people to "repent & ask for forgiveness" as though they are the ones who judge & determine who needs to be better. If we judge people by their fruits there are a lot of Churchers who are not good Christians IMO. It is those unthinking types who I wanted nothing to do with that made me an atheist for as long as I was.

I said the Corinthians passage you referenced before "cuts both ways" because I think it's the self righteous Churchers who condemn others based on their own flat "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" interpretations who are actually caught up in just how wise they are.

The rest of the passages you reference here all hinge on what it means to believe in Jesus. I don't think your version of belief is in any way more valid than mine.

God knows our minds Jeff. So it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you. None of us can really judge anyone else but we can warn them about not repenting of their sins or having a false belief.

I believe this conversation started because you said you did not believe Jesus died to save us? Or was a misinterpreting this? I am honestly still not clear what you are saying.

I would be curious what you think my version is and what your version is exactly?

Thanks Jeff, if you rather private message me this is fine too or just talk here. I am fine with either one.

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The way I see things, Jesus died because people are prone to status chasing above all else & to blindly aligning themselves with authority figures, both of which are stupid & easily the most destructive behaviors of all time. The lesson to be learned from the death of Jesus should be enough to save people from those behaviors, but unfortunately I think a lot of people, even those who seem to care, still miss it.

I will spend some time on the passages you DMed me sometime soon & we can continue there. Need sleep now 😴

I am a relatively new believer myself. I don't have all the answers but I believe we can learn from each other.

God bless and sleep well.

I have been an anarcho capitalist & bitcoin hodler for ~13+ years. I don't vote. I think people who pray to the American flag are worshipping a false idol. I have been eating only meat (no fruit or veggies) for 7+ years. I'm completely opposed to all vaccines now, in addition to the covid gene therapy jabs. I was often the only person in the store not wearing a mask during the plandemic. And I drive a ~$2000 car. All of that is just to make it abundantly clear that what other people think of me is rarely any concern, that's their business, not mine.

But church people are quite often hypocritical & emotionally abusive while engaging in lots of gas lighting. There is almost nothing that can make that sort of behavior worth tolerating. It's literally satanistic abuse, poorly hidden by fake smiles & fake happy tones, that drives people away from the church.

If you are a Christian you will forgive those people and pray for them. Don't forget that we are no better than anyone else. We are all sinners.