Replying to Avatar PABLOF7z

I actually think we shouldn't migrate to NIP-104, I think nostr:npub1zuuajd7u3sx8xu92yav9jwxpr839cs0kc3q6t56vd5u9q033xmhsk6c2uc would agree -- MLS is too complex to become the shelling point all apps that want DMs should support; apps shouldn't need to rely on an SDK to support a feature and building MLS from scratch is hard -- I think NIP-104 should remain a very specific feature separate from generally-available DMs -- kinda like Telegram vs Telegram "Secret Chat" or Telegram vs Signal.

I just think we should completely remove NIP-04 DMs from all clients and NIP-17 DMs should not be sendable if the user hasn't configured inbox relays.

I agree with all of this, but the issue isn't if you agree or I agree, the issue is having *all* clients being in the same standard, otherwise DMs remain broken.

i.e. We've had a handful of clients supporting NIP-17 since it's launch, but still two of the most popular clients, Damus and Primal, do not support them.

How do we get past that hurdle?

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this might be an unpopular take, but to me, the answer is simple: we don’t. different clients will always implement different standards, and we can’t expect every client to support every feature; in the future, I think it’s reasonable to expect that most users will rely on more than one nostr client, with each implementing different features as best as they can

I think a) those clients should remove DMing until they support NIP-17;

b) clients that do NIP17 should not allow DMing someone without inbox relays setup and perhaps check if the user recently sent a NIP 04 DM recently, if so, let the sender know their DM will probably not be seen

My favorite xkcd is always relevant.