Nostr Web Client

I admire your optimism.

Good luck finding these reckless dudes granting the permissionless custodianship. They will be there no doubt. But the question is for how long and how you will be able to find them if publicity is what kills these services...

Phoenix didn't want to do it. Alby are trying to circumvent it. What about Mutiny? Tbh, I don't really know why they stopped developing their wallet... But I can imagine the "money transmitter" -regulation is at least a part of it.

What do you think about JAN3, AQUA wallet and Boltz? For how long will they continue offering their potential "ML" service? Oh and btw, WoS left US appstores, too. Custodianship enables regulation. Regulation forces permission.

mrclownworld 1y ago

You’re not wrong. I think that’s why “second party custody” as the Fedi people like to call it, or “private” custody is so interesting.

The idea that a small private community can start their own custodial service for their members and have it be interoperable with the global system at large - without getting prior permission - is very exciting.

Maybe it’s not realistic for everyone to “be their own bank” but if you and your family and friends can be each other’s bank, that’s in a lot of ways just as if not more interesting.

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Discussion

Ben Arc 1y ago

Sounds like shit federations that will break.

mrclownworld 1y ago

Break how?

Analogue Dog 1y ago

Lightning is it its early days. There will be better scaling solutions that allow for self custody. I've tried to engage with the ecash advocates but the difficult questions are ignored, so I assume they don't have answers to them.

mrclownworld 1y ago

What questions?

Analogue Dog 1y ago

How can ecash holders verify that the mint fully & effectively blinded the signature?

If I'm selling you eggs in El Zonte for ecash, but we realise there's no connection to the mint after you've paid me (ie revealed the tokens) what happens?

mrclownworld 1y ago

I can’t speak to the first one

But the second one is not that different from the days of writing checks or the risk of counterfeit bills or the rare times when the credit card machine goes down

Social responsibility will always be part of the equation in any economy. Trust minimization is a good goal, trust elimination is a pipe dream

There’s still trust involved in the eggs not being rotten, for example

Analogue Dog 1y ago

Second one isn't an issue with Lightning. No ambiguity. Either the payment is made or the payment is not made. None of this fuzzy awkward state where both people have seen the secret so nobody knows who has value.

mrclownworld 1y ago

I expect most ecash transactions will be redeemed as a Lightning transfer anyway, which as you said resolves the ambiguity in most cases

If you want essentially the same assurance with strict ecash though, you can just code your wallet to check for a connection with the mint before unblinding, right?

Analogue Dog 1y ago

Surely it's more important for the receiver to check for a connection.

mrclownworld 1y ago

Why? If I check that the mint is available, and then send you coins, and you say “I can’t redeem these, therefore I won’t give you eggs” then I just redeem them myself and cancel the transaction.

If the mint is not available to him, the seller simply need not hand over the goods.

And btw this is why I think it’s totally probable for most ecash to settle via lightning to the receiver’s preferred lightning provider (whether self-hosted, blind mint, or custodian) before goods are released. In this case, ecash issuance is just the method to bring a great degree of privacy to what would otherwise be a custodial relationship