Nostr Web Client

Here are some things I'd like to see from the Square/CashApp team for making this stick. I'd hate to see merchant adoption stall again, especially when we have to tools to make it an every day thing:

- Onboarding resources for "local guides". I am enthusiastic enough to actually go talk to the businesses in my area about accepting bitcoin, but a really crisp value proposition for businesses would be helpful (fees? UX? treasury?)

- A referral program for people doing the boots-on-the ground work of onboarding merchants *and* onboarding customers. Both sides of the market have to be developed at the same time, local "guides" are indispensable for stuff like this.

- A clear articulation of the value prop for customers. You don't pay card fees when you pay, and you have to pay fees to get bitcoin. What is going to make customers want to pay to convert fiat into bitcoin, only to give it away to merchants? There has to be a clear story here — maybe a 1% discount merchants can offer?

I think this is a huge opportunity to move bitcoin into "medium of exchange territory" that we should be sure to avoid wasting. If Square/CashApp can leverage the enthusiasm of local bitcoiners to help nurture the network effect, that would be a huge success. nostr:nprofile1qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaejuum0vd5kzmp0qythwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwd4hhxarj9ec82c30qyehwumn8ghj7mnhvvh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7ctewe4xcetfd3khsvrpdsmk5vnsw96rydr3v4jrz73hvyu8xqpqsg6plzptd64u62a878hep2kev88swjh3tw00gjsfl8f237lmu63q3gljvd nostr:nprofile1qyfhwumn8ghj7mmxve3ksctfdch8qatz9uq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwd4hhxarj9ec82c30qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnvv9hxgtcpzemhxue69uhk2er9dchxummnw3ezumrpdejz7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcqyzvrz5fj664celjqfuagq34cxdk4ghc5jjck8dhwdf3er3dwcfyvjunv3pq nostr:npub1ds3hmzemzgp9rsuvyvxqdk0y3uxnq9m903dktjxrvyfwk9w99t4sc2hzcn

nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqyd8wumn8ghj7um9dejxjapwdehhxenvv9ex2tnrdakj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7qgewaehxw309ac8yetdd96k6tnswf5k6ctv9ehx2ap0qqsgl5ewfpy5k407dcsdtfygpq4q5gsf3sga5xjspuc9h0pnxqss0sqvy5u94

Chicken Legs 2mo ago

I’ve been wrestling with this one. Australia (and many other countries) logs btc as subject to capital gains tax. So whenever we dispose of btc (like when we buy something with btc), it’s treated no different to a sale. We’re then liable for capital gains tax on any “profits” made from btc value growth since it was first bought. It’s a big tax too.

Lots of people only know of kyc exchanges or are not confidant or comfortable with their non kyc options.

So how can you transition a general population to btc as monetary exchange, when it’s at such a transactional disadvantage compared to fiat?

Not trying to sound pessimistic. Genuinely interested in thoughts on this for how to build the road ahead

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Discussion

magnum 2mo ago

I'm concerned about the same thing. I'm about to open a restaurant and I wouldn't want to get arrested or fined for allowing bitcoin transactions.

We don't yet know how strictly the government will enforce rules around crypto. Apparently they have software to determine crypto profits already.

We can rely on a certain level of government indifference and incompentence but that is a risky play.

Judge Hardcase 2mo ago

Maybe I'm not following... but are you suggesting that having to give away a portion of a realized gain on BTC to taxes is at a transaction disadvantage compared to fiat that has no realized gain to tax?

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

For most consumers the accounting cost and effort will far outweigh any gains, given the small volume. You literally have to account for every single transaction, including hilariously tiny ones, and it's very complex to calculate the delta.

You need the date and time of disposal, the cost base (the AUD value you originally paid for that specific portion of BTC), the proceeds (the AUD value of whatever at the time of purchase), and the resultant capital gain or loss. Who on earth is going to put themselves through that hell if they don't have to?

Maybe down the line some fancy software will help, but only so much.

Also there's the question of why pay the capital gains now when you might not have to pay it later? Tax laws change, and if the current amount is high then a future amount will surely be lower.

Abstract Equilibrium 2mo ago

Strike to Square. Tax problem solved.

Consumer disposes fiat for coffee, merchant gets whatever they want, and visa gets...nothing

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

And accountant gets the equivalent of several venti lattes.

Chicken Legs 2mo ago

Thanks I’m going to look into that

Chicken Legs 2mo ago

I would say the accounting cost can be overcome with automated services, personal use exemptions, non kyc, and circular economies - Kinda like just spending in cash.

I was referring more to the appeal of btc transactions not being strong enough to overcome the learning curve for newbies, or to overcome the want to hold btc.

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

The bigger problem is that when you compare bitcoin to all the other options out there, including stablecoins, the only reason to choose to pay with bitcoin and not one of those other options is ideological.

Chicken Legs 2mo ago

Yeah you’re right, it’s a big factor. I do think there are other great strengths already though.

- I think being able to essentially do digital cashies is absolutely massive, especially as adoption increases.

- Able to avoid card fees and surcharges.

- Not needing permission for certain payments.

- A self managed level of privacy attached to payments.

- Not needing to disclose financial information in order to make a payment (credit card deets).

- Smart contracts for more complex pay setups

I think what your saying about idealogical preference is obviously a big reason for lots of people. But I think that the idealogical push will eventually lead to greater acceptance. Which will hopefully lead to even more favourable conditions like de minimis exemptions for transacting. And eventually straight up monetary adoption.

Do you think it can head that way?

Garbage nsec 2mo ago

The crux is that other digital methods get you all the advantages you listed with fewer drawbacks. It's not a binary choice between fiat and Bitcoin.

For the average person Bitcoin (vs other digital) is much harder to acquire out of band. You can't even top up with a debit card on Strike anymore. Now on Strike you have to go through USDT via Tron. (Yes on Strike you need USDT.) And if you're going to acquire USDT on Tron then you have all you need already, just pay in USDT, save the runaround.

And if you believe Bitcoin will go up and up then you're basically making you future self poorer by paying for your new fridge in Bitcoin as opposed to dumping your not-going-to-go-up currency. You're making yourself a chump.

At the end of the day it really does all hinge on a quasi-religious argument. But a lot of people have religion already.

Chicken Legs 2mo ago

I’m not suggesting its a financial disadvantage. I’m suggesting that the fact it is treated as a taxable event, puts new or potential bitcoiners off transacting in it. Because it’s not the streamline they’re used to with fiat, and depending on your timescale, holding btc is the attractive alternative.

Theres a personal use asset loophole in Australia for transactions under $10k (but with a short time limit), there’s circular economies, lightning settlements, there’s nostr zaps.. all of it works in favour of btc.

But there are tax implications and a lot of new learning hurdles for someone who doesn’t yet even know how their bank works (I’d argue the majority of bank customers).. so it makes it hard to incentivise people, when they feel overwhelmed or confused by it.