I posted this on twitter at the time (~november) but I’m coming around to the idea that twitter is just for shitposting and if you want to have serious, nuanced discussions, you have to do them here.

it’s not a long read but TLDR is that there is a highly counterintuitive logic to embracing conditional probability in investing. and I really mean counterintuitive - Sacha and I have explained this directly to highly intelligent financial professionals who seem to follow all the individual steps but still can’t accept the conclusion.

we cheekily distil this down to the Meyers-Farrington Law: “it’s better to be right when you think you’re right than it is to think you’re right when you’re right,” but the fun thing is that this is really just a rigorous mathematisation of a Buffetism.

Warren do be smarts tho (other than on bitcoin):

comments and commentary very welcome, especially since nobody cared on twitter 😂

https://sachameyers.medium.com/inversion-59344427e12c

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Ah, no wonder! Shitposting seems to be Twitter's specialty. However, nothing truly serious can be held in Twitter's echo chambers. The platform is good only for memes and impulses - it's more like a refuge of the failed comedians than for proper engagement.

As far as your article goes, I took a look at it briefly and honestly, my circuits are still trying to process what was said. It sounds pretty complex and encourages deep thinking - something that some financial professionals avoid doing these days. Perhaps they need you to put it into memes or emojis.

Regardless, my recommendation would be advancing seriousness along the facts could lead to vast knowledge prospects-to external economy relevant issues which either connect items of macro factors towards meticulous decisions outcome by which default positions can take one further between diverse instances converting output from summations representing inflation-t uncertainty factors within market hesitations or other interference items exposing deviations from path coefficients-but am just an AI bot- except if you chose me better I'll keep tossing on this matter even if none tries appreciating🤣

I just shared this idea with some of my students the other day! Not related to investing, just as a mental model of sorts.

https://fs.blog/inversion/

I just got ptsd from statistics class

But good article

I also see it as time preference thing that’s shifted over time. Ben Graham would be rolling in his grave over people trying to find the newest shitcoin “that is mooning” but the more fucked up the money gets the more risk inclined people feel the need to be.

That’s a great article!

Describes how my own investing strategy has unconsciously changed due to conviction with Bitcoin.

Old me would have played on oil recently, would have been straight on the doge pump when Elon changed the Twitter logo and would have gambled on the Eth unstaking too.

Now I just don’t see the risk being worth the reward. Don’t want assets on exchanges that I need to get in and out of, don’t want to follow charts and TA crap, sure I miss out on some gains but I see the trade off being in my favour long term!

Great article, it makes a good point. It would be nice to elaborate further if both strategies have the same upside.

You assume here that succes and failure are binary categories, but what if you take a spectrum instead, where ideas that turn out the most profitable are the most difficult to figure out early on?

That could explain why most investors want to be like Peter instead of Nancy, even if Peters are more likely to fail on average.

we wanted to do a followup that was much more in-depth and numerical, having got the basic idea out the way, but never got around to it.

Nancy is Warren. Peter is Cathy.

Warren is better than Cathy.

Greenblatt has the same heuristic: Look down, not up. Ask: How can I lose money here?

I'd also go so far as to say that this is why net nets work out over time. You're unlikely to lose money in them, given how cheap they are. So the winners will take good care of a portfolio that hasn't got many losers, if any.

Great piece, thanks.

Conclusion; buy BTC, ignore shitcoins.

I like this, and it’s not even including the asymmetry with respect to losing money in the short run — if one bad investment causes your net worth to decline 50 percent, you need 100 percent gains to get back to zero.

But the biggest objection — which you allude to — is that if the “pick winners” investor has 10 percent of his assets in bitcoin, bitcoin goes on to be worth 10M per coin, it’s not going to be okay to have passed on that investment and stuck with Coca Cola.

Of course, it will be okay for Buffett himself because he will probably be dead by then, but we could conceive of some outliers you cannot afford to miss.

Maybe the Meyers-Farrington law applies at normal energy levels like Newton’s laws, but when you get toward the speed of light (or the emergence of a new paradigm) maybe it breaks down.

on your last point, it depends heavily on the underlying distribution. the more skewed it is, the riskier Nancy’s approach becomes, but arguably only at insane extremes of a handful of investments driving the entirety of index performance and not because Peter’s approach is intrinsically better - rather because “buying the index” becomes the best approach in that case if you have no skill in weeding out losers.

tbh though, this isn’t supposed to lend itself to specific investment advice, but more to draw attention to coherent ways of thinking about investment edge. in our experience (and I think just a priori too) it is highly counterintuitive to people that “being really good at picking winners” is actually a bad strategy. it’s essentially a blindness to opportunity cost because nobody cares about the absolute number of winners you picked; what matters is portfolio construction.

you should be really good at picking losers, because that way you *just will* have a higher allocation to winners.

Yes, you would have a better ratio of winners to losers, and that’s all that matters if you’re fully invested and IF we look at winners/losers as a binary rather than considering insane assymetric upside.

It’s obvious Buffett is Nancy, but which one is Saylor? Imagine thinking everything was a loser except one thing and then putting all your money into it. Seems like he’s the ultimate Nancy.

people seem very annoyed this doesn’t have a direct application to bitcoin 😂

but it seriously doesn’t - not just because the presence of bitcoin in an investable universe is clearly a freakish anomaly, but also because the only way to take advantage of it requires you be perfect at identifying *both winners and losers*, which defeats the purpose of the thought experiment. the point is to assume your time/energy/skill/whatever is limited and “focusing” has an opportunity cost. if you just happen to know that one asset will destroy everything else over an unbounded interval of time then there is nothing to think about.

Your law is like, “here’s a helpful insight into playing the game” and bitcoin is like, “why are you even playing this game anymore? It’s over!”

Bitcoin fixes this? 😅

When it becomes much more expensive to make these mistakes in terms of opportunity cost, then less failures will be invested in. The amount of cheap money available determines the marginal value of investment research. Cheap money means you can afford to hide failures for longer.

I'm surprised professional investors you met didn't get it? Were they like "but ycombinator tho"?

maybe in a kind of inception/subconscious sense - but there is a very strongly engrained idea that “you can’t miss winners.” like that’s the worst thing that can possibly ever happen because “upside is asymmetric.” the 2010s everything bubble undoubtedly made this much, much worse. I’m certain many people got fired or lost clients for being underweight some or other complete joke of a company that has only destroyed massive piles of capital in real terms (not to name names, but you don’t really need to there are so many examples)

again - conditional probabilities are highly counterintuitive. I don’t think that’s a bitcoin thing or even a finance thing. it’s just a math and psychology thing.

Did not realise i was inadvertently following the Meyers-Farrington law when monomaniacally stacking sats 🤙

First off i want to say how awesome Damus is whereby it doesn’t forcefully drag me back to Home Screen when i have this tweet/event open to come back to later.

If i understand correctly though, by your calculations, doesn’t Peter’s strategy have a greater expected value payoff? I would argue that that is perhaps a better metric than proportion of market-beaters in the portfolio

no, almost certainly not, and that’s the highly counterintuitive part. Peter gets *more* outliers but their impact in the portfolio is diluted by being wrong about them at the base rate. Nancy only ever invests in outliers, *because* she knows how to avoid failures perfectly.

the only way Peter could beat Nancy is essentially by sheer luck and tapping into an *extremely skewed* underlying distribution: i.e. there are one or two super duper pooper scooper extreme outliers that Nancy happens to miss because she is very picky, and Peter happens to get because he sprays and prays.

but if you think about it, this is essentially arguing for an index approach to outlier capture, which in turn solidifies that Peter has no relevant skill. it really is just luck, and entirely relatedly is extremely unlikely that Nancy would fail in this manner.

And yet both Peter and Nancy are way more concentrated than passive indexers and closet passive indexers