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We’re three years out from covid so I feel like I can say this: If you are wearing a probably manufactured in China piece of felt on your face, let alone in your car, there’s something else going on with you.

First of all, those masks in particular have been LONG PROVEN to not do anything to help you or others avoid covid. They do not filter small enough particulates to be effective.

Second of all, you are alone in your vehicle. What the actual fuck are you doing?

Third of all, if you’re that deep in down the covid rabbit hole you’re probably quadruple vaccinated or something. Why do you still need any mask?

If your response is that the vaccines don’t prevent the spread of covid and further admit they don’t prevent you from getting covid (both inarguably proven AND admitted by the pharmaceutical companies) then why do you continue getting them?

What’s going on?? Truly. At this point it’s like Stockholm syndrome meets virtue signaling. Your mask might be blue or white but I see a red flag square on the center of your face that says STUPID.

IT’S BEEN THREE YEARS.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

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Discussion

Mallard Beakman 2y ago

I got kicked out of my doctor's office on Tuesday for not wearing one. I'm just over it.

mrclownworld 2y ago

I recently showed this video to someone who insisted that the vaccine was never said to prevent transmission

https://rumble.com/v1znyng-the-transmission-lie.html

Luckily, they were able to acknowledge, “ok, they did change their story”

Micah541 2y ago

Um… maybe my son tested positive recently and I don’t want to spread Covid to the students sitting in the first two rows of my class because that would make for a whole bunch of really really annoying paperwork with finals coming up if students have to reschedule their final, or take a medical incomplete- that’s not what I want to deal with during spring break.

I’m not judging you for not wearing one, but I don’t get the point of the reverse virtue signal.

Tetsu Tamasi 2y ago

If you dont want to spread covid, stay home until you know you’re negative. You can put 5 of them masks and during your lectures your students gonna breathe the same air you do anyway. Yes, covid gets out through your mask easily and no you didn’t get a magical air purifying cloth for $2.99.

Bowtied Peasant 2y ago

Only reason might be that they themselves have covid and are trying to limit the spread? When I see people doing this, I try to impute charitable motives to them, even if I think it somewhat pointless...

alanajoy 2y ago

I hear you but as I said: Cloth masks do nothing to limit the spread. https://www.kwtx.com/2022/01/08/health-experts-warn-cloth-masks-are-ineffective-against-covid-19/?outputType=amp

Bowtied Peasant 2y ago

Agree. Have read the Cochrane review. I just prefer to think that they might be trying to be considerate rather than ignorant...

alanajoy 2y ago

You have to be ignorant to think that is being considerate, though. What I don’t see is anybody walking around with a medical grade respirator, which would actually maybe do something to prevent the spread of most things.

VOLKER - Voice Of Logic Knowledge Experience & Responsibility 2y ago

That's not what the article says, and you were talking about "probably made in China", which implies surgical or N95, both of which are at least somewhat effective. Certainly not "doing nothing".

Even cloth keeps you from smear-infecting yourself because it keeps your nose covered.

alanajoy 2y ago

Go look on Amazon, most of the shitty cheap felt like material mask are from China. Covid particulates are smaller than what those masks are able to filter.

VOLKER - Voice Of Logic Knowledge Experience & Responsibility 2y ago

a) yes, but droplets aren't

b) you can get decent quality masks from China

c) the smear infection part stands

I'm OK with the gist of what you're saying, but the degree of overgeneralization doesn't quite match the degree to which you claim stupidity on the part of others. Just my 2 sats.

alanajoy 2y ago

I’d rather not get decent quality anything from China.

Better than nothing, basically a fashion accessory isn’t a convincing sell.

At the start of covid I bought several boxes of 3M n95’s which I used for a period of time.

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Droplets stick to the mask. Then you inhale microscopic partcles for possibly hours. Mask mandates were 100% unnecessary.

alanajoy 2y ago

What the article says: They say while the cloth masks were some of the only options at the beginning of the pandemic, they are only a little more than a fashion accessory now, offering little protection against COVID-19.

A fashion accessory.

Kevin's Bacon 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y47t9qLc9I4&pp=ygUJbWFzayBtYXRo

They actually help. But not in cars and not when forced. Mandates are evil.

Livsey 2y ago

When they told us in the beginning we didn't need masks but then 6 months later magically everyone HAD to wear one I knew it was bull shit. This was a test to see how easily the public will follow orders, how effective big tech is at stamping out dissent, how easy it is to crush liberty with fear. They succeeded

alanajoy 2y ago

In the beginning, when they said, we did not need masks, I called bullshit. We, and when I say we, I mean an every day, citizen, like myself, did not yet no anything real or unreal about Covid. I did my own research and learned about what type of mask is most preventative. I purchased several boxes of 3M KN95 masks, just in case. I’m glad I did. Precautionary measures are smart in the face of the unknown.

When they said we DID need them I felt like they just wanted to make sure medical professionals had first access. I saw how they threw everyday people to the wolves to protect the population they wanted to protect.

My daughter was very young at that time and had an absolute meltdown every time I tried to put a mask on her. Since schools were closed by then and our home was well stocked I didn’t use many of the masks, but I did use them: again, we didn’t know anything. Better safe than sorry.

But as we learn we should shift our strategies. At this point we are 3 years out. Neither of us has ever had Covid. We haven’t worn masks at all once my state lifted the requirement. At this point it reflects absurdity imo.

alanajoy 2y ago

Christ, the extra commas and no instead of know: I hate voice texting but also hate long form typing on my phone lol forgive me

Sean 2y ago

In healthcare, we’re stuck wearing them. When directly taking care of extremely sick COVID patients - masks were pivotal. Did the public need to wear masks? Most likely not

alanajoy 2y ago

Absolutely: in healthcare all precautions should be taken to keep those members of society that we very much need to be healthy… Healthy. That said, those who are working in healthcare are typically provided with the types of masks that will actually make a difference.

Sean 2y ago

😂 yes. Gotta love those cloth masks though

alanajoy 2y ago

🫡 #[4]

Tetsu Tamasi 2y ago

I was the first person I know covering my face with cotton cloth and the first person to stop the mask nonsense later on. Things weren’t that difficult to figure out, when you weren’t outsourcing your thinking to “experts”. I talked with multiple people with phds… 😬😬😬 It was incredible! Their trust that someone else correctly verified the information is unchallenged by any other group in society! Absolutely and utterly clueless.

I dont know how many changed their statements now, but the shit I heard from them during last 3 years made me rethink everything about the current system. I knew money was fucked, #Bitcoin showed me. But #corona showed me how absolutely unprepared for any critical thinking the academics are!!! How fucked we are, if most people with phds cannot make their own decisions outside of their own profession!?

Tetsu Tamasi 2y ago

*cotton cloth =bandana

Mr Jamie 2y ago

Or just let people do and be, what someone wears doesn't concern anyone else.

alanajoy 2y ago

I’m not proposing laws to inhibit anyone’s freedoms here, I’m opining on a socially relevant topic that has impacted everyone on this planet

Mr Jamie 2y ago

you're shaming others' decisions for clout

alanajoy 2y ago

I’m shaming idiocy. What clout? A few shakas and some sats? Ok, that’s not what drives me. I share my views and I’m entitled to them as are you. Are you shaming me for clout? Or just sharing your view, as you’re entitled to do. I think you are sharing your view and we can disagree.

Peter Gerstbach 2y ago

Actually they do work, this „small particle“ argument is wrong because most viruses survive in small waterdrops that are large enough to be filtered by masks. I thought after 3 years this is common knowledge…

If someone wants to wear a mask, just let him/her, why does it bother you?

alanajoy 2y ago

Maybe it bothers me for the same reason that my post bothered you enough to say this? Social commentary. Also, you are factually incorrect. Unless you are wearing an N95 mask you are not protecting yourself or others.

Peter Gerstbach 2y ago

Okay, I thought you are talking about N95 or FFP2, they are quite effective, reducing transmission risk of most airborne viruses by about 80%.

alanajoy 2y ago

“piece of felt” 🫡

Peter Gerstbach 2y ago

I understand, thanks for clarification, I thought it was just a informal term for a „real“ mask, my bad.

Are these actually still a thing where you live? When I see masks here (Europe) it’s almost always FFP2/N95 now – for a reason.

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

I'll leave a few reflections on masks in general.

Large drops lands on the mask and then you breathe in the microscopic particles over several hours. If you need a professional mask then you will get the virus anyway in some social situation.

Masks are only useful to reduce coughing spread when you are sick but that's still just a reduction and we can't prevent every risk in the world. Coughs happens just as life happens, we can't micromanage everything top-down style.

All freedoms comes with risks. If we have a zero target for risks then that means a zero target for individual liberty.

mark tyler 2y ago

I agree on the mandate stuff, and on the limited effectiveness stuff. I disagree in principle on the if its not it’s worthless stuff, but yeah I could see data showing that they are a beer negative

mark tyler 2y ago

Oops, meant to say “disagree with the if it’s not perfect it’s worthless stuff”

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Fair enough.👍

I support people's right to wear a mask voluntarily if they see a reason for that. If someone is coughing a lot it is considerate to find some solution to reduce that.

Mandates are a form of central planning which removes and possibly inverts the decisionmaking of the individual with most knowledge about their own health situation.

mark tyler 2y ago

Is there any spread rate and deadliness profile where you’d prefer mandated behavior? I think I’d be very tempted to support mandates if it were highly transmissible before symptoms and also highly deadly

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Good question.

If the deadliness is high then people will notice and voluntarily take precautions, including masks. And if the visible mortality is high we would see directly if masking (or particular masks) helps or not.

As a result I'm firmly on the side of voluntarism and individual decisionmaking rather than by mandates and central planning.

mark tyler 2y ago

My worry is that person A’s definition of “high” for deadliness or spread is much higher than most people, and that causes a small percentage of the population to make stopping the disease impossible.

Would you say if 1 person disagreed with the containment procedures, that we should not force adherence, given that the expected death toll of that person not following procedures is 99% of everyone else? I’d guess you’d support the use of force in that case, so where is your line?

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

We can't protect ourselves against viruses over extended time. The best bet is gaining immunity through endured illness.

However, to each their own. If someone wants to isolate and wear masks I respect that approach.

There is room for a variety of voluntary strategies. Private hospitals should have their own rules unimpacted by government decrees and customers will vote with their wallet for their ideal treatment.

Individuals spot the degree of danger first, long before governments, as evidenced by Covid.

mark tyler 2y ago

Let’s imagine that example is really how it plays out

Universe 1: everyone lets that person A walk around as he pleases, and *everyone dies but 1% of the population* as a result of only that person’s freedom.

Universe 2: that person is forced to follow x procedure, *everyone* lives.

Would you choose universe 1 or 2?

And maybe to put a finer point on it, would you consider shooting person A if they credibly told you they would definitely do something that might spread this specific disease to you?

I’m just hoping to establish the relatively easy case we agree at least on choosing universe 2. And I’m curious what you think about the hypothetical “finer point”.

alanajoy 2y ago

I would legitimately rather die than lose autonomy over my body to any authority. I trust my own intelligence, no one will ever force me to do something against my best judgement.

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

💯 And with our extensive record of how central planning works from observing decades of communism, there is nothing as deadly and dangerous to humanity as central planning.

Our survival a species depends on decentralization, self sovereignty, bodily autonomy, individual rights and the right to property.

mark tyler 2y ago

Yeah, I concede that my hypothetical is unlikely. If you’ve read the book Artemis, their anarchic society probably would send person A out of an airlock without a space suit. I dunno I’m 100% for freedom and the non-aggression principle, but what I’m getting at here is trying to figure out what a consensus is on who started the aggression.

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

This is reminiscent of the Trolley Problem. Those pulling the levers in the Trolley Problem have no idea what happens if they don't sacrifice certain people, they are making assumptions from poor data, as all central planners do. They are driven by hubris and their motivations can easily be ideologically driven.

Central planning is the absolutely most harmful scenario, as the past 3 years have shown. Add 70 years of communism to our insight into how central planning works.

Peter Gerstbach 2y ago

I think current state of science is that good masks can both protects yourself and others to a varying degree and if used correctly. Of course I agree that we can't and shouldn't wear them all the time. "All freedom comes with risk", I like that sentence!

Personally, I wear a mask for example when I am sick and need to take public transport or have to wait at the doctor's. Especially in a waiting room, full of coughin people, it also makes sense to wear a mask for self protection. I don't want to go there with a hurting leg and come back with a nasty virus! 😷

Leo Fernevak 2y ago

Agreed, more power to the individual and we will see what people's honest perception of a situation looks like. Local decisionmaking brings responsibility where it matters.👍

Peter Gerstbach 2y ago

Exactly!