Nostr Web Client

I been explaining it. And I am not saying dump your coin. Just dont act surprised if / when any of this happens. If Whirlpool is deemed an unlicensed money transmitter even though they never took custody, a non-custodial wallet can be deemed same since one does take custody and transmits money.

I think a lot of the uncanny gap that needs to be crossed is the simple recognition that regulatory capture is a thing.

Bitcoin is well positioned to avoid regulatory capture, IF people use it in a self sovereign way. if they don't, then it doesn't matter that it's a decentralized permissionless network.

TCP/IP is the classic example. sure it's a decentralized permissionless protocol. Right now you're interacting with it through a centralized gatekeeper (your ISP). nostr is great exactly because it removes one 3rd party from the situation.

if you're not a primal user, then you only have to trust your ISP to use nostr.

same with BTC, in theory.

*in practice , Bitcoin is centralizing around platforms that enable mass adoption. and people have been cheering it for many years.

this will enable centralized control JUST LIKE what happened with social media platforms built on top of a decentralized protocol.

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wrong metaphor but I hope it's clear what I mean anyway🤣

Joel Walbert 2w ago

Actually, I think that is a great metaphor.

it gets the point across.

people here are clear as to WHY Twitter failed

and therefore WHY nostr is necessary.

its maps pretty well onto Bitcoin also

if most usage centralizes around platforms that provide easy onboarding and a nice UI

but at the expense of sovereignty,

it easy to understand how it fails.

getting into murky, unresolvable conversation about geographic arbitrage and trying to game out a Blackrock hardfork is fun,

but not particularly productive.

Joel Walbert 2w ago

I wasnt necessarily considering a fork, but cant rule that out either. Isnt Saylor promoting that nonsense recently? That could certainly disrupt shit and drop the valuation. Then de-list real btc from exchanges, which would drive most away from it.

Then monero people would like it lmao

you mean

"the imaginary monero people i argue with in my head would like it"

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Wow, thats just fucking lame bro.

How is that lame? Every monero person I’ve talked to gloats about how good it is that monero is off exchanges and basically banned. No exchanges, no KYC right?

Joel Walbert 1w ago

And btc can be obtained the same way, but many want nothing to do with btc since it lacks privacy.

whats lame is thinking monero bros would cheer a contentious fork and lots of Bitcoin infighting.

if it's just some delistings, sure. we'd have no problem with that.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

The infighting another issue that is sickening, as well as all the hate directed at monero and those who use it. But, divide and conquer has always been a successful strategy.

obviously if you criticize Bitcoin and DON'T think its success is inevitable, you MUST think it will fail and are an adversary to Bitcoin 🙄

Joel Walbert 1w ago

🤣

Yea, heaven forbid I have concerns and want to get people to even remotely consider the possiblites. Im a fucking monster.

and according to homeboy

I'm a clown because I criticize Bitcoin and also stack it

not the champion of intellectual nuanced argument... 🤷

If any of you have real evidence or a logical theory about it failing I'd love to hear it. But so far all I've read is bad people want to ruin bitcoin so bitcoin is bad.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Jesus fucking christ. I never said a damn thing about failing or that its bad. And more than once said I hope I am wrong. Heaven forbid I see possible problems in the future. This is going nowhere. You are just making shit up and claiming I said it.

And that’s a good enough reason for you to be off bitcoin?

see right here,

my bro fails to understand that being critical of something's flaws

doesn't mean you hate it and want it to fail.

you just have criticisms 😮

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Am I?

Seems like it

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Why, cuz I have concerns? See this is what I mean. You are reading things into what I have been saying that I have not said, nor implied. Seeing problems that may arise in the future doesnt negate its usefulness in the present.

No one knows the future. You can speculate a million different terrible things happening. But if you can’t explain a rational reason why those bad things will play out the way you anticipate, then it’s just a doomer trap. We already have enough things to be depressed about. If you can’t offer a rational game theory of how this all plays out, then this is just a negative spiral of doom. And I’ve experienced those and am not interested in going back. People like this were so certain that masks, lockdowns, and vaccine passports were going to be the new norm. I was convinced of that too. That didn’t end up happening. So I suffered and tortured myself in my own mind because i overestimated the power of elites and underestimated the impact that the disobedient minority had in this world. People have been calling for the demise of Bitcoin for years. Why is it still around? Every controversial thing is the end of Bitcoin. Every damn time. And it’s still around. Blocks are still being mined. Payjoin still exists. Lightning still exists. Non kyc sats are still around. Ashigaru is being built out the last time I checked and that project could be infinitely better than samourai. Bitcoin may literally be in a better place overall a year from now.

Samourai should not be in jail but they also should’ve decentralized their business better. They got greedy and attracted too much attention to themselves with their marketing. They flew too close to the sun. Ross did the same thing. He admitted that he went about it wrong and was trying to make things happen faster. It’s going to take time.

It’s great to be cautious and prepare for horrible things. But if everything is viewed as an inevitable failure just because elite evil billionaires exist, then what’s the point of living? This isn’t an asshole take? What’s the point of life if we are headed for inevitable demise with no hope for anything to change or improve? Your worldview is too narrow. Let the US ban Bitcoin who gives a fuck. Move somewhere else. The US will crumble under its own bullshit anyway. As if these mining businesses can afford to be that reckless. They’ve literally destroyed their own currency. So what are they going to do? Destroy their own mining businesses and subsidize it with more money printing? How long will that last? People are already on the edge financially. A 51% attack is not sustainable. And people that are desperate for money, and there will be a lot more in the coming year, will break the law to mine those censored transactions. Your views lack nuance.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Again, who the fuck said anything about failure. Stop putting fucking words in my mouth

This is failure

nostr:note16cy7ny7gsecshrhh6gk407xrtztkrcqau7rzsxpvchnkwuqn3zfqr6wd03

Joel Walbert 1w ago

You use the word but clearly dont know what it means, or what I have been saying since you have continually made shit up in your head and applied it to my words. Seriously dude, fuck off 🖕

Why are you so angry? Are you incapable of having a civil discussion? I did not disrespect you once.

No self custody means Bitcoin failed. That’s not a stretch. The point of Bitcoin is to hold money that the state doesn’t control.

So the implication of your statement is that Bitcoin will fail. Yes those are your words. I did not put them in your mouth. Unless you think that Bitcoin can succeed without self custody, then I would be wrong for putting words in your mouth. Although I have a hard time believing you actually think that. No self custody in Bitcoin means it failed.

I spent hours trying to understand your thought process and all you’ve suggested is that Bitcoin is guilty by association which is a logical fallacy. The NSA played a major role in the development of modern cryptography but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use it or that it’s bad. They’re tools that can be used. They’re amoral.

And now you’re telling me to fuck off after I wasted all this time trying to understand the risks you’re anticipating?

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Mainly because you keep putting words in my fucking mouth. Which means you did not actually read anything I wrote, but kept arguing based on what you made up in your head. Never said anything about failure, yet you claimed I said it twice. You claimed I have said 'bitcoin bad' which never was said nor implied. And obviously just outright ignored the multiple times I said I hope I am wrong. And then there is the black pilled bs.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

And you just here once again restate the lie that I am saying btc will fail. Those are your words, not mine.

Sat Nakamoto 1w ago

The only thing we have to do is die. It’s no different with btc. The only questions left are the how and the when, that’s all. That’s the note.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Can we drop this. Your a good dude, I dont wanna argue with you about this. I said what I needed to. You disagree and that is more than fine. 🫡🥂

It's fine to disagree I just don't get the hostility

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Its the you accusing me of things I never once said, nor implied. As I said many times now. But fuck all that, Merry Christmas bro. 🫡🏴‍☠️🥂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lr8gONZI3c

Merry Christmas 🎄🫡

If the success of something is dependent on the actions of normies, then it will never succeed. And that also goes for monero. Sorry but no adoption means unstable price and that fucks its medium of exchange prospects. And if mass adoption does happen, monero can’t scale. So it’ll have to do some type of fork or something. At that point, why wouldn’t evil billionaires start donating tons of money to monero developers? If Blackrock invested in monero, would you start waving the white flag for monero too? Anything that is likely to succeed will bring in the likes of Blackrock. It’s inevitable.

this is what happens when you don't actually follow the conversation,

but start arguing with the imaginary people instead.

also minus 10000 points for "if it depends on normies it will never succeed. also, we have to have mass adoption."

you're high and noting.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Yea a btc standard automatically implies normies. It cant work any other way, otherwise, its not a standard

Okay and?

I’m pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments. Your fear of Bitcoin failure is rooted in the actions of evil billionaires. Any other solution will also attract evil billionaires to try and influence it. So why not just give up on everything? You’re not offering any real solutions and won’t explain how a 51% mining attack can actually be sustained long term. Bitcoin is guilty by association in your eyes. A loose association.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Who said anything about btc failing? Or giving up on anything? I just raised some issues I find truly concerning and its not my job to tell someone what their solution is. That up to the each person to figure out themselves. As for a 51%, if these fucking control freaks control 51% of them, well thats the sustained attack. I starting to think you have not even read anything I wrote. You are claiming I am saying things I never have said, nor implied. But I guess Im black pilled ( THE most normie thing anyone could ever say btw).

Well I've read theories on what a 51% attack will look like many years ago. I felt good about the outcomes eventually when I tried to play out the game theory. I'm trying to understand how you think it will play out but it doesn't seem like you have played theory out to its logical conclusion. A 51% attack will most likely lead to a growing number of unmined transactions in the mempool with inflated transaction fees. It's basically free money sitting there for miners to take. This incentivizes miners to break the law. It also incentivizes miners to leave the US and incentivizes new miners to pop up in other countries.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Well, you just described exactly what I am getting at as a possibility. And no, they wont break the law as the entire op is under the boot. Some will leave, and will just be replaced with ones who will play along. I really dont see whats so hard to understand. Majority shareholders call the shots. Thats the point of being a majority shareholder.

You need to study Austrian economics. There are economic realities that you can’t just brute force.

Joel Walbert 1w ago

Wow, really? I guarantee I've studied it long before you even heard of it.