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Before property?

Property is not a right. It formally is for the time being because of our current stage of development.

We are all stewards, not owners.

If you care about something, you want the best for that "something", and you keep it safe and close to you. That doesn't mean that it "belongs" to you exclusively.

Not even your physical body is yours.

Violations of supposed "property rights" are actually violations of free will. Because you **wanted** the best for that thing that was taken away from you (and now you can't provide that anymore), **or** you **wanted** not to suffer yourself because of the lack thereof.

It's all about free will.

Property is a word we use to talk about things that affect our free will.

But we don't really own anything here.

We only own our soul (the source of free will).

This has been studied by philosophers and theologians, and people that hoard stuff that other people need, just for the sake of it, don't really have a right to keep those things.

And I agree.

I can't accept that people suffer hunger because they can't have a plot of land to plant potatoes, while someone bought a mansion next to them, just to sit there and never use it, because they can. If the people that need to eat take it, I don't see that as a violation of any right, just common sense.

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todmann67 1y ago

You are correct in that God owns this s entire world. As his image bearers in the material world, we have been tasked as its stewards. So we can, in turn, own property here. As Christians, we also have a duty to act appropriately towards property and more importantly in how we relate to others directly and indirectly through our treatment of property.

inventor 1y ago

There can only be one Creator. How can you own property as if you were God?

What if other "created-in-the-image-of-God-being" decides that what is "yours" (according to you), is his?

There is a profound error in this kind of thinking. This is the kind of thought that creates wars among humans.

todmann67 1y ago

Dude, your kind of thinking is soft-commie gobly gook. Property is the foundation of civilization and is totally in accord with God’s will. I’m sorry you don’t like that.

inventor 1y ago

Oops, you just called Christianity "soft-commie gobbledygook".

From Summa Theologiae:

> Things which are of human right cannot derogate from natural right or Divine right. Now according to the natural order established by Divine Providence, inferior things are ordained for the purpose of succoring man's needs by their means. Wherefore the division and appropriation of things which are based on human law, do not preclude the fact that man's needs have to be remedied by means of these very things. Hence whatever certain people have in superabundance is due, by natural law, to the purpose of succoring the poor. For this reason Ambrose [Loc. cit., Article 2, Objection 3] says, and his words are embodied in the Decretals (Dist. xlvii, can. Sicut ii): "It is the hungry man's bread that you withhold, the naked man's cloak that you store away, the money that you bury in the earth is the price of the poor man's ransom and freedom."

> Since, however, there are many who are in need, while it is impossible for all to be succored by means of the same thing, each one is entrusted with the stewardship of his own things, so that out of them he may come to the aid of those who are in need. Nevertheless, if the need be so manifest and urgent, that it is evident that the present need must be remedied by whatever means be at hand (for instance when a person is in some imminent danger, and there is no other possible remedy), then it is lawful for a man to succor his own need by means of another's property, by taking it either openly or secretly: nor is this properly speaking theft or robbery.

Repeating a mantra doesn't make things true. "It is true because I can repeat what Authority said."

This is called "Prescriptivism".

The only prescription I give is to understand the roots of the most common prescriptions.

Once you understand the underlying logic behind them you become your own Authority.

todmann67 1y ago

No. I said we should act Christian. There is nothing un-Christian in the concept of property rights. To say they don’t exist leads to incoherence. Don’t tangle that up with our obligations to act charitably to the poor and needy.

inventor 1y ago

No, it's not a "need" for yourself to help the poor.

The text is clear. Christianity does not consider it theft if it's done by someone that really needs it.

Period.

There are not two ways of interpreting it. Read it as many times as you need.

todmann67 1y ago

In some cases it may be more or less moral. Doesn’t negate the reality of property and property rights.