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Okay, so currency has to be based on an asset to maintain a valuation beyond speculative usage. Monero has no underlying asset on which it bases its value. Also currency doesn't need a constant stable supply. That's just how the dollar maintains its place. Currency is only needed insofar as it eleveates a financial commerce bottleneck. With Gold being so heavy, paper currency was used as a trade medium to increase trade velocity. With Bitcoin, lightning increases trade velocity through by passing the approximate 10min block time. It also is onion routed increasing anonymity and obfuscating the number and amounts of transactions. Monero is in a technical sense unlimited in supply but in a real sense more so not limited by a supply cap. The constant changing of protocol also lends to not ever having very wide adoption because you can never build anything on top of the shifting sands of the protocol.

Jordan S 1y ago

Currencies are a medium of exchange.

Neither does Bitcoin, or The U.S. Dollar.

Having a constant stable supply of currency helps it maintain liquidity, and velocity, currencies that appreciate in value don't circulate as easily.

Monero has a block time of two minutes with funds being unlocked after 10 confirmations (20 Minutes) whereas Bitcoin (On-Chain) can take hours to days, if the network doesn't reject it, Bitcoin lightning has a lot of issues, Custodial wallets to function, needing wallet to be open to recieve funds, Bitcoin locked up in channels, poor channel management can cause funds to be lost, etc.

Monero has no supply cap but that does not mean it's "unlimited", it follows the issuance principle of tails emissions which is a constant, and predictable supply increase.

Momero protocols changes on an as needed basis, Bitcoin Soft Forks, & Hard Forks also, the main difference is Monero is more open to forking to tackle issues with monero, and innovate.

Monero is used just as much if not more in most peer 2 peer marketplaces where multiple cryptocurrencies are accepted, Bitcoin has the better legal infrastructure but Monero has actual underground market growth.

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JackTheMimic 1y ago

I am not going to go back and forth about economic inaccuracies. "Constant stable supply" is not a thing in the world of currency that is infinitely divisible. There is no problem with liquidity in bitcoin. Custodial wallets aren't needed in lightning. Receiving funds in an invoice payment system necessitates the wallet to be open. Or just use a web socketed Bolt12 address or a lightning address and your wallet software is always on. You don't "lose funds" due to poor channel management either. They just return to your on chain address if your channel closes. Again, I don't care about monero and it was outside of the scope of my criticism of the original post. A protocol that never ossifies is not useful. And without a supply cap it is not useful as currency without a peg to a money.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 1y ago

Lightning users who have lost funds watching their on chain wallets for those refunds after reading your propaganda

JackTheMimic 1y ago

cool, link me one instance and I'll conceded. But technically there's no way a lightning contract "loses" funds. You simply force close the channel, the funds return to your on chain address. What I find is people like you don't use things correctly, don't have access to your on chain addresses, you don't have a self hosted node active, or have watchtowers for any counterparty risk. You say things like:

I lost my Bitcoin when I used lightning!

"what happened?"

well Ididn'tb write my on chain private key down, I deleted my wallet then my channel partner force closed while I was trying to move funds!

-So in short YOU did that yourself. You threw away the combination to your vault and expected to be able to access it.

Jordan S 1y ago

https://stacker.news/items/658124

Jordan S 1y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/lightningnetwork/s/gN6aRwYIZD

Jordan S 1y ago

https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/lose-funds-lightning-network/

JackTheMimic 1y ago

Points 1&2- yeah custodians can rug you, this can happen with literally anything(yes with XMR)

Points 3&5- if you cheat, your channel peer gets compensation. If they cheat and you don't catch them for 2 WEEKS using a lightning wallet, watchtower, lightning node software, yes you got your money stolen. That seems reasonable because if you do catch them they risk node access, all of their channel funds, and reputation.

Point 4- yeah, don't let people use your computer and route over tor.

Yes, I conceded that if you try to steal your peer's funds, you DO lose your funds. My bad, I should have stated that caveat.

JackTheMimic 1y ago

lol, and again, read the thread. some force closed channels were returned to their on chain address. the other 4 channels in question were still open and active channels that were later collaboratively closed. and a nice telegram scammer to throw into the mix. no funds were lost.

JackTheMimic 1y ago

did you read the thread or just the headline? no funds were lost. they returned to the on chain address when the channel force-closed. (By the way Alby was a custodial node service so, not a great example of a sovereign use of lightning.)

Jordan S 1y ago

Ok, I didn't read the whole thing on the alby one but waiting 14 days for your funds to return to you is a bit ridiculous isn't it?

I mean conventional banking only takes 3 to 5 days, so in the mean time onchain liquidity is frozen up waiting for lightning to resolve itself.

Personally, I enjoy on-chain.

JackTheMimic 1y ago

Force-closes are extreme circumstances. and the HTLC has a lock to avoid scams. giving someone 2 weeks to see they were being cheated is a feature not a bug. in most cases the collaborative close is used and you get on chain funds as soon as the txn is confirmed. it would be much quicker if threat actors weren't a concern in the real world. having the entire financial record on chain at the rate cash or credit is used would need storage the size of a Colosseum to verify. keeping rapid transactions off chain for velocity and on chain for settlement is the best way to keep a system decentralized.