Replying to Avatar Guy Swann

One of us is misunderstanding the “attack all DCs at once” issue and it addresses multiple of your points either way.

When I say attack multiple drive chains, I’m not talking about attacking them within the drivechain rules, I’m talking about attacking the hash rate escrow. In that since they don’t care what the rules of the DC are. They are simply replacing the “valid” DC peg out with an invalid one, and ACKing it instead. But because there are blind merge mined, what stopping them from doing this on every side chain at once? They can apply their hash power to all of the escrow transactions simultaneously, and send the DC ecosystem into a scramble to do full validation of everything to know the “honest” from the “malicious” peg out. If they don’t, then there’s no way to know the truth. In other words, just like some of the coin pool proposals require a mass exit of all transactions to L1 to enforce security in the case of an attacker, then it seems that this trade off for DCs is to require a mass validation of the whole ecosystem by miners in order to ACK for the honest transaction.

Which means to me, that in many ways it has the same centralization concerns as bigger blocks. While a negative externality is that it has the potential to change the mining profitability dynamic on L1. And we don’t necessarily know how either.

I just think serious skepticism is warranted. I wish we could see it active with real value behind it and just test a large scale attack, like 70% of the hash power, to see how it plays out. Just having some testnet DCs isn’t giving us much there. I want to see the failure mode beaten to death.

Can you explain to me the difference between BMM, Blind Merged mining and Hash escrow ?

DC is a two part bitcoin improvement proposal. 300&301

300 came first, obviously, and 301 came later as an added bonus and logical extension.

In the above reply you are applying BMM and "securing the drive chain" to peg out, which i assume is what you mean by hash escrow. Which are not the same.

BMM does not need to be implemented by several types of technologies we might find on a sidechain. So if, out of 256 sideschains only 10 use POW and BMM, how are miners able to attacknall of them. I point this out again because if you think they still can there is a huge gap in understanding.

DC Peg outs are just like any other UTXO. Why don't miners "attack" any other UTXO. If they do or can, the bitcoin game theory or tech is broken and we have much bigger problems than adding one OP code to core.

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It isn’t about “attacking” the UTXO in my thinking. It’s about submitting a malicious one, and then ACKing it despite contradicting with the rules of the sidechain.

I’ll try to take some time this week to go back through the links you gave. I still just feel like I get dismissal with most of the concerns and I really want to see and get the process on *exactly what happens* in the case of a malicious miner. Not a statement that they won’t exist. Same thing we did with Ark, just spent the entire episode trying to break down and make a shape of this thing by attacking all of the edge cases.