Subnostr

And yet almost the whole world is connected via the base layer of Internet protocol, and you can have 100% privacy on tools like SimpleX, which operate on a higher layer, built a few layers up from TCP/IP. An example of how those wanting to optimize for privacy were able to do that over time, and the base layer does it's base job well.

Could there have been better designs? Sure! But Monero will likely lose users over time, because they chose in their design approach to do more on L1. Network effect on L1 of BTC + additional layers/improvements bringing privacy.

Saberhagen The Nameless 2y ago

Yes, I'm a fan of SimpleX. But if you care about privacy defaults matter. How many use tor/i2p or even VPNs? They are inaccessible to the average person because of ignorance or lack the time to learn (not necessarily because they wouldn't like to be private). It's more friction between them and privacy.

Look at BTC, LTC, Zcash. All have optional privacy, but no one uses them that way.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Unless Bitcoin hardforks (wont happen. immutability is a major value prop) to improve privacy on the level of Monero, Monero will always be useful because of it's unique L1 tradeoffs it offers. You can gain privacy on L2s but take on different tradeoffs from either Bitcoin or Monero.

Bitcoiners always bring up network effects, but conveniently ignore that Monero has the largest network effect for privacy coins. And it is only growing over time on the darknet and will most likely displace Bitcoin (chosen by a free market and adversarial environment where these things matter and are put to the test).

So far, any possible L2 privacy improvements you lose custody (fedimints), non interactivity (lightning), permissionlessness (liquid), change mining incentives (drivechains). Other trade offs exist with each one but those are some major ones.

The wise know there are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs.

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DK ⚡️ 2y ago

"The wise know there are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs." Yes, this is my exact point. Proper layered design + best tradeoff mix + what market chooses becomes default protocol.

"Monero has the largest network effect for privacy coins". Great - shows privacy is desired by some people. Privacy is a feature/function, and time will tell where people looking for privacy will go ultimately. Which tradeoffs were best, etc?

I probabilistically believe that BTC will be the L1 that gains the most from it's layered design choice, but the whole thing is an emergent ecosystem, and value will accrue in lots of places. Best wishes to you!