I think our views are more compatible than it seems from the surface.
We donât have to agree about that much to be able to peacefully coexist. Thatâs the beauty of Liberty.
And also why itâs so important to defend.
Discussion
Happy to hear this from you. I think this can be true.
I think it is important to defend the liberties of the most exposed and vulnerable, to fullfill the idea of freedom. To me freedom means nothing, when it would only belong to a certain prototype. Otherwise I would only have the freedom to act in the manner of such a defined prototype.
And I am really speaking that this is in the end for everyone that wants to be free. Not only for the individuals that identify as LGBTQ+. Since when it would be ok, to attack them violently, whatever attribute can be found to legitimate every violence.
For how somebody clothes, religion, ethnic, size, color of skin, language or whatever attribute would be ok to legitimize violence, when it would be ok to attack LGBTQ violently.
I think we both want liberty for everyone. Not just for a stereotype. Since this stereotype would always be defined by the rich and powerfull.
Just to be clear with you- I personally believe that lgbt is sin and outside of Godâs plan. We were meant to reproduce, or else to abstain from sexual immorality. The lgbt actually leads people to loneliness, sickness, and desolation- a sick culture.
Now, making laws about this is very different. The law should not change based on what people believe.
The Lord Jesus Christ said: he who is without sin, can throw the first stone.
And that applies to this sort of moral policy, especially when we are talking about government laws about sexuality- Which should not exist at all.
But that doesnât mean I wonât âdiscourageâ my culture from sexual immorality, if I can.
This might seem like total fascism to you, but itâs not at all. Since I am making it clear that the government/state/law should NOT apply to this area at all. My beliefs do not control the law.
The tyranny of the false law that does have these moral policies: drug war, firearms restrictions, etc- must be ended!
Itâs either that or the culture will slip into an authoritarian pendulum, swinging back and forth between the extreme left and right. Both sides willing to use the power of the state to restrict Liberty. With each swing the âprogressâ towards totalitarianism continues.
The only solution is LESS government.
You should also read Bastiat:
https://cdn.mises.org/thelaw.pdf
(Very short!)
Bastiat makes a great point here:
Thanks for your explanation. I really am with you in one sentence of your note at least:
"Now, making laws about this is very different. The law should not change based on what people believe. "
So religion should be kept out of law making. I think we both life in liberal societies. They are liturally based on freedom of religion, freedom of expression and the freedom to do whatever you want aslong as it does not take away any freedom from someone else.
This is incompatible with enforcing whatever Jesus said. Laws are based on proper reasoning. Our societies are not depending on christianity. Christianity is depending on the society.
And I am quiet sure most priest would interpret said phrase about throwing the first stone as as a trap. Since it will be most probably be based on the fact that no human is without faults (sins). Jesus was very clearly liberating from those who want to enforce power over others. He forgives the murderer, forgives the thieves, forgives those who betrayed.
So I do not see any way, you could use Jesus to argue for verbal or physical violence against LGBTQ.
But I would say our society is really past this still reasoning based on what is written in the bible. Theologs can reason about the bible. But I really can only accept good reasoning.
I think Jesus was a very good person in reasoning well. I would love to argue with him. But Jesus was not a liberator through enforcing some old writings out of the Thora. So shouldn't we.
Jesus is the ultimate liberator.
In terms of sexual immorality, the problem is that it hurts those involved in it most. And it should be discouraged culturally.
I realize we wonât agree about that. But I needed to make my belief clear. It helps to make the point that the two of us can still agree about the proper function of the law: ensuring liberty and maintaining peace for all.
-while disagreeing about cultural issues.
This point is missed in so much debate online âleft vs rightâ
But no one is free currently!
Everyone is a tax slave, if you donât pay- men with guns will show up, pull you out of your house and throw you into a metal prison box- or just kill you.
Donât you feel like thatâs a bigger problem? For everyone- no matter their sexuality?
No. I do really not agree with the. "tax is theft" narrativ. I see it rather as the burden to invest to achieve freedom.
Since with the payment of our taxes, we allow everyone going to school, the police to bring criminals to prison and ensur, that people who get into tough conditions have a fair chance to get back up unto independence through the help of social services.