Replying to Avatar π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯)

They plead guilty to running an unlicensed money-transmitting business, money laundering was dropped. What is there to pardon?
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Guy Swann 2w ago πŸ’¬ 3

They plead guilty not due to actual guilt, but because they were blocked from providing nearly all of their items and arguments for defense and because they were looking at having a farce of a case that ended in 25 years in prison. While the very regulator who would determine whether they were a money transmitter publicly stated and directly informed the prosecution that what they did would not fall under "money transmission." Yet the prosecution went forward anyway and simply made it so this essential piece of evidence was not presented in court.

They can't be guilty of a crime that A. its a crime and has no victim and B. when the very authority that would determine the regulatory obligation of the action itself claims they were not in violation.

That's pretty fucked up in my book

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

Take your emotions out of it and look at this logically.

1. They ran back end servers that made whirlpool service possible.

2. They coordinated mixing transactions through Samourai controller servers. They decide the timing, mixing and distributions of mixed coins and made money running it as a business.

They might be able to beat the money laundering conspiracy but and it is clear they are running an illegal MSB, however unfair you think the law is.

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QnA 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

The prosecution in the case contacted the regulator (FINCEN) and asked if they qualify as an MSB, they were told no, which is in line with FINCEN guidance shared since 2013.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2025/05/05/samourai-wallet-s-lawyers-say-prosecution-suppressed-critical-evidence-call-for-dismissal?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

It doesn’t matter what the FinCen regulator says. It is up to the DOJ to prosecute or not.

If they believe they are innocent, then fight it in court and don’t plead guilty.

If there was prosecutorial misconduct, go to trial and and then appeal but they pleaded guilty instead.

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QnA 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

Of course it matters what the regulator says. How were they supposed to play by this imaginary law if that very regulator literally says β€˜you are not an MSB’.

Also about pleading guilty. Easy for you to say when you’re sat behind a keyboard and not staring down the barrel of your good years behind bars.

Read through the court docs. It was plain to see the judge wanted to make an example of them here.

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

DOJ is not bound by what a regulator says, they have to prove it in a court of law what they indicted them for.

So if you believe you are not guilty then Fight it in court.

They can’t have it both ways. Either they are innocent and prove it or they plead guilty to lesser charge and make it all go away.

You can’t limit your downside and at the same time want unlimited upside. There is no incentive for DOJ to deal. The world doesn’t work that way.

The crux of the matter is they created a software, use it to make money as a business without registering with FinCen. They gonna get you on this technicality 100% of the time, no matter how unfair you think the law is.

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QnA 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

They couldn’t register with FINCEN per FINCENs own guidelines. FINCEN said they do not fit the criteria to be a MSB.

I don’t know how much clearer I can make this for you…

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

You are conflating 2 issues.

They claimed prosecutors talked to staffer that claimed they don’t qualify as MSB.

FinCen never issued a formal ruling that Smourai didn’t have to register.

And the whole thing is moot when they pleaded guilty to running an illegal MSB.

The most important thing you have to understand.

FinCEN guidance β‰  binding law

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QnA 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

β€œUnhosted wallets are software hosted on a person’s computer, phone, or other

device that allow the person to store and conduct transactions in CVC. Unhosted wallets do not require an additional third party to conduct transactions. In the case of unhosted, single-signature wallets, (a) the value (by definition) is the property of the owner and is stored in a wallet, while (b) the owner interacts with the payment system directly and has total independent control over the value. In so far as the person conducting a transaction through the unhosted wallet is doing so to purchase goods or services on the user’s own behalf, they are not a money transmitter.”

https://www.fincen.gov/system/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20CVC%20Guidance%20FINAL.pdf

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

What does this have to do with anything? They ran whirlpool on their servers and made money from mixing and distributing mixed coins as a business without registering with FinCen. That’s where they got them.

Not creating an unhosted wallet.

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QnA 2w ago πŸ’¬ 1

🀦 I’ve wasted enough time here. Have a good day

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago

You keep thinking they got busted just because they created a software.

That is false.

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π–‹π–Žπ–†π–™π–‰π–Šπ–“π–Žπ–Šπ–— (Β―`◕‿◕´¯) 2w ago

IF β€œthey were blocked from providing nearly all of their items and arguments for defense”

That would immediately trigger

Interlocutory appeals

Appear in public rulings

Form the basis of a later plea withdrawal

What specific excluded motions, evidence, or rulings are you referring to?

AFAIK, FinCEN created the rule but does not determine criminal liability, it is up to the DOJ. So just because a FinCEN staff said that, it doesn’t bind the DOJ not to prosecute.

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Eporediese 2w ago

Maybe the Department of Justice needs a rename too.