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If the Digital gulag comes to fruition, no cash, CBDC linked to a health vaccine passport and dig id that has all my assets tokenised on a universal blockchain ledger that i have no choice but to interact with…. How does bitcoin allow me Freedom ? The only option is that this system doesn’t occur which seems more and more unlikely. Am i being negative ? I find it hard to see how these 2 worlds co exist unless more people resist which after the covidscam seems also unlikely … I’m a bitcoiner but how many bitcoiners are there ? Seems the Bitcoin dream for most is etf emptiness. Here’s to their systems being unworkable and more people waking up

Hodler 4mo ago

Black markets, and #Bitcoin, mostly privacy preserving / low fee 2nd layers will become black market money.

1) Full blown communism (the situation you describe) can't create quality stuff, so there will be a massive incentive to produce stuff outside the system and earn some sats.

2) Within the system is a place for black markets too. E.g. you can buy the meat allowance of a vegan for some sats.

The situation you describe can't last long. The black market will strengthen and grow, while the formal markets will be plagued by regulation further and further. Ones the black market overtakes the formal market, the regime will collapse under its own weight.

It's probably going to be get the F out or sitting it out. If you decide to leave to a place with more freedom you need your Bitcoin to bring your wealth, and if you stay until the regime collapses you need the Bitcoin for the black markets.

Also, we don't have to get there, I am still hoping that sanity returns before this shit gets rolled out. Don't forget that the incentive to track, trace and control comes out of the fiat debt problems.

Govs are literally bankrupt, and this system is the only way they see to force the population to pay for it. If we get on a hard money / Bitcoin standard, the incentive for this control grid will disappear and the world will suddenly shift to sanity.

Bitcoin fixes this

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Discussion

BitcoinSandy 4mo ago

That’s the kind of reply i love. Thanks. It’s great knowing others’ thoughts, this is why i love Nostr. A place to interact 🤝

Noisy signal 4mo ago

Great questions .

Awesome response.

Not just blackmarkets either.

Bitchat has launched . Perhaps a developer can create a Hawala protocol / network layered on Bitchat.

I came across this in Lyn Aldens book - Broken Money.

Money doesn't move. Ledgers do.

1. If A in one 15 minute city needs to get sats to B in the neighboring 15 minute city.

2. A pays sats to a local Hawaladar (broker) based on trust and reputation who then contacts the receiving broker in B's location.

3. A's broker then sends a code direct to B.

4. B

BitcoinSandy 4mo ago

Don’t trust, verify. That’ll be hard to implement based on third party trust

BitcoinSandy 4mo ago

Also even saying 15 minute city makes me rage. No one is stopping me moving around

Noisy signal 4mo ago

I did a part 2. I accidentally posted before completion.

I used 15 minute cities as an example of offline bitchat.

Noisy signal 4mo ago

I spent time studying Hawala. Slave caravans used this system to stop robberies enroute. Spices moved and so did precious gems.

To this day I know of local Indian cab drivers and shop keepers still using this system . To send money home.

Chinese and Mexican cartels use a version of this moving drugs around USA.

Each have a vested interest. Trusted reputation is paramount . Anonymity and fast transactions are its hallmarks .

Like I say - its not the money that moves. Its the ledger.

And Bitchat has the potential to provide the network .Dodging cell towers and surveillance systems is pure bliss.

Noisy signal 4mo ago

pt2 - sorry I stuffed up.

4. B gives the code to his local broker, pays a fee and collects the sats.

5. The transaction is informally recorded by both brokers and the debt is settled later, through various means such as cash, goods, services etc

without a direct money transfer .

6. Its fast, and fees need to be low, to make this work.

Fun fact -

Hawala is still practiced today from Persian times. Western countries outlawed it.

And it works with offline networks.

The gatekeepers are the brokers - I don't have an answer for this.

Perhaps someone else like Lyn Alden can give us a clue.