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It was hard for me to imagine how Vipassana Meditation centers which don't charge a penny, still exist and not only exist , they grow, Now they have 267 own centers world wide offering 10 day courses for free. The surprising part is once you finish a course, there is no one "asking" you to donate. Sometimes people have to really ask around where the donation counter is. That is the effect of something that is offered selflessly and we living in a system built upon selfishness have forgotten that power. And a selfless organization isn't playing the game of "who is taking advantage of whom" - that game is only true inside a system based on selfishness.

Yes, there are paid employees and also volunteers in co-ops. Both are possible.

You would be surprised regarding margins. This is the recent report on retail sector / Supermarkets in Germany (As its in German, maybe some AI can answer your questions once you upload and ask it): https://monopolkommission.de/images/PDF/SG/SG%20LLK%202025/Sondergutachten%20Lebensmittellieferkette_Monopolkommission.pdf

In summary, there is a kind of monopoly happening in Germany, these supermarkets squeeze the farmers, food processors and also charge customers a lot as they don't pass on the savings. And guess who is the wealthiest person in Germany, owner of a grocery chain, Aldi.

I have read the history of money and those examples. Somehow the assumption is that we would go back to that era when the topic of a moneyless economy comes because it is hard to imagine one and so as I said it is hard to describe for me the final evolved form of the economy without money.

I just try to kickstart this simple zero-profit grocery project and see where it goes 😄 .. I know it wont transform the entire economy in my lifetime, but maybe after 75-100 years - just laying the foundations, sowing the seed for a different kind of economy :-)

FiddleHodlHomestead 5d ago

I can see how much you have thought about this!

I don't know enough about Germany, but in the US most monopolies exist because of the way corporations lobby the government for rules and regulations that work in their favor and basically create a moat around them that makes competition almost impossible.

I think the most damaging monopoly is of money itself. Only central banks can print money, and the use of each nation's currency is enforced by violence (or the threat of violence). I can imagine that without that, different forms of currency or trade could emerge naturally.

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Discussion

Nikhil Kulkarni 5d ago

True, it is a really competitive space but its food 🥺, its life, we need to claim it back and make it free from profit. No matter what the currency is (Even Bitcoin), we know how profit ruins any industry, I think this is clear to the world today.

So though I agree theres a monopoly of money but I don’t see how a new form of the same idea (ofcourse free from govt n central authorities) has a different effect on humans in running the same services/businesses , won’t we want more of bitcoin , will profit maximising disappear, will hiding scientific research to make profit go away, will businesses suddenly care , will kindness exponentially increase? I dont see how.

FiddleHodlHomestead 5d ago

I guess I don't agree that profit itself is bad. What's dangerous is when some people have the leverage of monopoly to impose their will on everyone else.

Without that centralization, you still have human greed (on a continuum - people who want a second set of clothes for their children all the way up to people who want 30 yachts) but you don't have money printing as a tool for the most powerful (who I think tend to be on the pathological side of that profit-seeking range).

So personally I don't think that profit ruins business; it's monopoly and centralization that ruins business and society.

Competition has become a dirty word. I'm not sure why - because it feels harsh or mean? between siblings or partners it can be negative, I suppose but in society it's the basis for so much that works well. I buy little apple seedlings for our land, and I look for varieties that have been selected over the years for resistance to certain diseases, etc. The nurseries that sell them compete with each other to grow better trees, and everyone wins when there are more of those better apple trees out in the world. It means more apples per tree, more food (which, as you say, is life) in the world.

Nikhil Kulkarni 4d ago

Reminds me of a recent song I wrote/made using my Philosophical notes on Evolution as a Greedy Optimizing algorithm vs Conciousness + Me humming the tune + AI putting it all together, please give it a listen 😃 :

https://podverse.fm/episode/ui6sdtn-g

So .. I think money and its direct consequence, profit, played a very important role - lots of trade, cultural exchange, etc. Just like, Competition has played a very important role in Evolution and therefore Humans exist today. So no, Im not classifying any of them as categorically bad.

I now remember a famous quote "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be" by Dr. Temple Grandin. By the way, I remeber it from a really good movie based on her life, worth checking out.

So, Yes competition, money and therfore profit are not bad. They were needed in the past. But now they're not well suited to be dominant mechanics or the soul of our economic system, we need to evolve out of it too.

If change is the only thing constant, then maybe we must entertain a bit of change. And I think our economic system needs change.

Let me know how you like the song 😃