Nostr Web Client

Replying to

Hanshan

they are not on third party custody you unbelievable knob

they are in a channel that I have the keys to.

in this case I am also running the node, not that its necessary.

nobody can take them or spend them without stealing the keys that I am holding.

self custody.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 6mo ago

You're not making sense

You implied no online node is needed for lightning custody

This contradicts what I know about lightning so I asked you to clarify and your response doesn't seem to clarify

You're saying nobody can take or spend them without stealing your keys, but by my understanding, that must mean those coins are not on the lightning network, because you or someone else would have explained by now in this discussion or the many others I've had about it

But by all means, feel free to finally tell me what I'm missing if it exists and you've all just been refusing to say it this whole time

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Discussion

Hanshan 6mo ago

a payment channel on LN is just a 2 of 2 mainchain multisig. it doesn't go away if the node is onffline.

either party can unilaterally close the channel and get their sats back.

there are literally hundreds of articles, guides and howtos on LN self custody.

if you dont believe it exists, its a You Problem.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 6mo ago

I don't get what "either party" means but I definitely don't see how what you're saying would add up to me being able to receive coins at a lightning channel with a node that's not online

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 6mo ago

Also not getting what you mean by "close the channel and get their sats back"

Sounds like a transaction with a fee, but that can't be it because that would mean it's not self custody, as I've been saying

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 6mo ago

lightning channels are an on-chain transaction shared between two peers. by default both usually have to be online because usually there is a policy to auto-close the channel if the other peer is offline for a substantial amount of time.

however, if two nodes decided to allow it, i'm pretty sure it can be done, just that you can't do any transactions without them both being online to share an update to the transaction that changes the balance.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 6mo ago

So that's another way it's not self custody

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 6mo ago

it's self custody that requires two selves lol

it's got the same level of trust though. the protocol makes it so that the worst case scenario you have to pay a bitcoin transaction fee to close the channel.

in comparison, an ecash token is completely worthless if the mint goes down or refuses to pay you via lightning or onchain when you try to redeem it. an exchange wallet is exactly the same in this respect. in fact there is very little difference between an exchange wallet and an ecash token. different authentication mechanism but it's the same trust me bro.

🇵🇸 whoever loves Digit 6mo ago

But I don't have to pay any fees to hold Bitcoin because it's self custody