Monero isn't a shitcoin or a scam, its just fundamentally flawed.
Base layer needs to be optimized for hardness then use layers to achieve privacy.
Monero doing it backwards.
Discussion
Isn't hard, therefore shit.
No pre-mine, proof of work and truly does have great privacy, i respect the effort and won't call it shit.
Bitcoin just 1000x better :)
Every shitcoin sacrifices a certain feature in order to maximize another.
And Bitcoin doesn't make sacrifices (lack of fungibility, privacy, tx fees)? There are no solutions, only trade offs.
Bitcoin didn't stumble into someone's open source software, copied and played with it and made sacrifices just to change certain aspects of it.
That was monero (shitcoin).
Don't confuse the two 🙄
What exactly do you mean by "optimized for hardness"?
Soft forks and small blocks
And auditability
ASIC-resistance is the most foolish part of monero.
Why is it foolish?
'easy access' is nonsense.
You can calculate SHA256 with your hands. It is just about efficiency.
The reason why CPU mining appears to be profitable is because Monero is a shitcoin and so, no one is mining it.
Claiming that monero pumping price wise would motivate ASIC manufacturers to break RandomX's ASIC-resistance is just pure speculation. You're not dealing with facts, it's pure FUD, the same nature of wild speculations that are used to attack other aspects of bitcoin in the future.
Bitcoin mining centralization seems to me as worriesome as RandomX not being asic resistant. Both pure speculation on unchatered waters.
I mean, the price pumping WOULD incentivize people to try to create and asic. That's not unfounded, has certainly happened before
The unfounded part is that they would be able to.
There's also motivation to break sha256 with quantum computers. Will that happen? Probably not, it's literally just FUD.
I mean that will very likely happen lol I'd imagine there will have a to be a hard fork to a quantum resistant algo (quantum computing could just be the next jump like from gpus to asics, but I have a feeling 256 bits just isn't gonna be enough lol)
Not in our lifetimes. And as you said, both bitcoin and monero could easily hard fork for something else.
Who knows. Technology seems to advance exponentially faster. But monero has more issues than attempting to be asic resistant lol. Dynamic block size and tail emissions, nope
Tail emission is meaningless, I don't go either way. It neither solves the "security budget", neither makes the money " soft". Gold has non-zero inflation and no one called it soft money. The aversion to tail emission is purely dogmatic and emotional.
For me it's a none issue, I abstain.
This. Tbf I can't blame bitcoiners being traumatized by fiat inflation.
But what makes fiat inflation terrible is the unpredictable and severe nature. Monero is neither. Less inflation than gold and % is constantly shrinking.
But sure, if all goes as planned, technically, Bitcoin is more scarce in the future no argument from me about that.
It's more about LONG term value. And a network that doesn't frequently hard fork lol
Yes. Long term value that comes from a scarce fixed supply (no inflation). That is my point.
Bitcoin has been a great SoV so far. But ~14 years is hardly "longterm". Extrapolating into the future is speculation.
If microscopic inflation and privacy improving hardforks from a FOSS project still scare you...don't save in Monero. Use it.
It's easier to extrapolate long term using industry standard encryption as opposed to something created on a whim to deter asics
That's a completely valid although subjective point. Different people will assess risk tradeoffs differently.
There's no objective truth here. I also prefer sha256 to RandomX for now.
And I can pick at tight ASIC manufacturer chokepoints, vulnerable corporate mining farm centralization, and less than discrete energy draw, heat, and noise.
But fair enough, we choose our trade offs.
Your issues with mining don't make it less secure. The energy it uses can aid in stabilizing energy grids and countless other uses. Asic manufacturing choke points aren't really an issue, id be more concerned about the couple big names in the space. And mining pools aren't really an issue, if they were to attempt to attack the network it would be obvious and people would just stop directing their hashpower there lol. Stratumv2 also nullifies that argument
How does stabilizing the grid make bitcoin mining more secure? If anything that makes it less secure because they are concentrated in single locations and can be flipped off and on by the state.
Of course ASIC manufacturer choke points are a potential issue you said it yourself...there are only a couple big names lol. How do you know newer better ASICs arent being secretly sold to governments? Would be more devastating to Bitcoin because of how limited ASICs are vs CPUs
Monero already has it's own version of "Stratumv2" called P2Pool for years. Catch up slowbros 🏄♂️
I'm sorry to say this.
Have you ever heard about server or data center? For a long time, centralized corporations or governments have had mass CPU computing power.
CPUs are also ASICs. CPUs also require cooling system. You don't understand what CPU, GPU, FPGA and ASIC are and semiconductor/computer industry at all. Your argument is based on ignorance.
Welcome back Mr. "bye bye 👋" 😂
You bring up some fair points about data centers.
What draws more energy and produces more heat/noise?Your average CPU or ASIC? Disingenuous to imply it is anywhere near the same level.
If I buy a bitcoin ASIC miner it is obvious what it is and what I'm going to do with it. If I buy a general purpose CPU you have no clue what I'm using it for. You don't even need to buy one you likely have several lying around.
Aws only doesn't control your chain because they don't want to
Bitmain only doesn't control your chain because they don't want to
Yikes dude now you're really reaching for the stars
Sorry exaggerating, Bitmain and MicroBT*
Maybe in 2017. Nowadays how could they control asics they already sold?
It would take them years and years of manufacturing and losing money until they would have enough hash power to make an impact.
Unless a government had been stockpiling ones not made available to the public all these years...with an unlimited money printer, and only a couple manufacturers to bribe. How would we know?
I consider it unlikely too...but still well within the realm of possiblility.
Also "no known quantum vulnerbilities" doesn't really mean anything. I'm sure some would be quickly found if it was more relevant. Maybe if it was an algorithm more people have looked at it would be more meaningful
I don't say that.
The higher the hashrate, the harder it is for ordinary people to mine. Imagine AWS, Azure is mining.
It is just about efficiency not about CPU, GPU, FPGA or ASIC.
Interesting point. Although the point of easy-access mining is not that you will be able to mine anything considerable with a 2010 intel celeron cpu.
It's that anyone in the world can mine buy buying off-the-shelf parts from a brick-and-mortor store next door, even if they need to spend a lot of money.
No matter how much I spend, it's nearly impossible for me to source any asics.
Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. I said you can calculate SHA256 by hand.
I've got something to show you. Bitmaxi in Korea starts running finger-size mining machine today.
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As far as I know, it has a dynamic block size, which is detrimental to decentralization because it can delay node validation.
They both have trade offs. ASICs are not perfect.
ASIC-resistance makes Monero mining more decentralized than Bitcoin. Just about everyone has a CPU. No manufacturer chokepoints like ASICs. Much more discrete. No red flag energy draw and noise. No corporate farms easily targetetable by the state.
Monero is a shitcoin 💩
Exactly 🎯💯
agreed. Even if they are not intended, it is shitcoin. I also respect their passion for privacy.
Do you think privacy features as seen in Monero will ever come to BTC network? I find it personally pretty funny that Monero is what people thought they bought when they bought BTC.
When given the choice between: absolutely provable mathematical scarcity and probabilistic privacy, or absolutely provable privacy and probabilistic scarcity... I will choose provable scarcity every time. 21 million!
...and non fungibility + lack of privacy comes with that choice. There are no free choices.
You can use each for it's strength. Save with Bitcoin, spend with Monero.
The consequences of an exploited inflation bug would cripple Bitcoin or Monero either way. Several times in bitcoin history there was a potential exploit, one where only the devs knew, but they honorably patched it.
Both have trade offs and different priorities. That's why you think it is flawed because you're looking at it from a Bitcoin perspective.
But 🤝