Why are you trying to remove features from Amethyst. What kinda CEO are you.
I don't like the follower count but we should not remove it. Instead we can improve it.
nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpzamhxue69uhhv6t5daezumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgwwaehxw309ahx7uewd3hkctcscpyug how much of a #Zapraiser do we need for you to remove follower counts from Amethyst? 1M?
Discussion
it's a bad metric because it's broken and can't be fixed. we don't want a central authority of follower counts. plus, follower counts just leads to egos, emotions, and generally are a dredge on legacy social media. it won't do us any good here either. we should get away from this unhealthy mindset.
Follower count is good for Internet dick measuring and influencers setting rates for shill posts, and not much else.
Unfortunately on a permissionless network there will always be somewhere to get these stats, because there is demand.
I do agree it should be removed from clients, along with the concept of a single "people I follow" list. Multiple lists allowing for organization would be đŻ better. As the size of a single list grows it becomes useless. People lists are in a sad state though, with missing support and interoperability issues everywhere. It's something I hope to see improvements on.
Imagine the names of lists as "tags", and seeing a word cloud of how people you trust had another person tagged. That would be much more useful than # of followers.
it boggles my mind that it's been two years since Lists were releases and most clients don't allow you to create lists or manage them. i want Lists dammit and i don't want to go to an external site to edit them. i believe Nostrudel and Nos are the best at Lists at this time.
Nostrudel unfortunately makes bloated lists with lots of duplicates, concatenating the whole list at the end of the current list when I add another user.
Here's how my carefully named lists created in Nostrudel display on nostr .band, which also has list management. đ¤ˇââď¸
That list with 574 actually has 40ish unique users, and a huge amount of duplicates đ¤Śââď¸
It's a sorely needed feature that's an absolute mess.
i haven't looked at my lists on nostr.band in a very long time. i normally use listr and nostrudel to manage them. i wonder if mine look bad there too.
I do agree it's broken but it can be fixed. It should cost 3 Satoshi or more in order to follow someone. Then the majority of your followers would be legit.
It would a massive defense to stop bots from spamming profiles.
Followers/Following list is good because it's a good way to find profiles and metrics. The problem is everyone wants to keep everything for free. Free attracts scammers and spammers. You need to stop thinking in socialst ways and start thinking more in a capitalist way.
that alienates brand new users. it's not good. we already have problems with people thinking nostr.com charges you to register a user account and use nostr. this would justr add to that confusion and turn people away.
You're thinking like a socialist because you've lived in the fiat world too long. You're stuck in the mindset that everything needs to be free in order to attract peopleâbut all you're really attracting are bots, scammers, and freeloaders. Just look at X (Twitter): it looks active, but strip away the bots and spam and you're left with maybe 30% real people. The rest is noise propped up by the illusion of âfree.â
Nostr is different. Itâs real. Itâs organic. Itâs growing slowlyâand thatâs good. Growth should be earned, not faked. We donât need fake metrics or mass adoption from people who won't stick around. We need users who contribute.
Youâre against charging people, but thatâs the future. Charging a few sats to follow someoneâsay, 3 sats or moreâwould filter out low-effort bots and create a more legitimate network. Follower counts arenât bad in concept; theyâre bad because theyâre broken. Theyâre gamed. They inflate egos. But they can be reimagined to serve a healthier purpose.
You want to remove features like follower counts entirely? Thatâs not the solution. Thatâs just giving up. Fix the system, donât delete it. The real issue is everyone wanting everything for free. Thatâs fiat thinking. We need to stop thinking like socialists and start thinking in terms of sustainability. If we want a free market internet, we need to act like it.
Who you follow is just a list you sign with your own key. How would you implement paying for that?
When you click on follow you would get a invoice. If you pay it you can follow the profile. If you don't pay it you can't follow the profile. If you unfollow the profile you will have to pay again.
If the profile doesn't have a lightning address then no one can follow the profile.
That whole system is an excellent way to stop spammers and bots and bad actors.
How would you get every client to implement this, knowing that anyone can make their own open source client? You don't need anyones permission to sign a note containing a list of npubs with your own key, which is all following someone is. What you want isn't possible đ
You're right that anyone can build their own client and bypass itâthat's the nature of open protocols. But this isnât about forcing anything on everyone. Itâs about setting a new standard that high-quality clients can adopt voluntarily to improve the network.
Plenty of things in Nostr arenât enforced by the protocol but are still widely adoptedâlike relay selection, zaps, or even UI/UX norms. Same thing here. If enough clients and users value this âpay-to-followâ model to reduce spam and bot activity, it becomes a social norm. Itâs opt-in capitalism. And guess what? Bots donât pay.
So no, Iâm not trying to restrict freedom. Iâm offering a market-based filter for higher signal, and those who want the benefits of a cleaner, more organic network will choose to implement it. You can still go use a free-for-all client if you wantâbut donât expect everyone to want that chaos.
It's an idea that would never work, but make the client I guess, see how that goes đ¤ˇââď¸