Subnostr

So people claim a stateless society would be nothing but chaos. The same type of chaos that was happening in the UK as a result of government policy? You say the stateless society would be invaded by a large army. You mean how the governments of western nations invade any country they choose? Or you say there will be roving gangs of marauders. You mean how the police of the nation terrorize the populace? What about the roads? Have you been on a government road lately? What exactly are you clinging to?

#breakthestate #anarchy #slavery #statism #monero # xmr #mmh #bitcoin #btc

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

DaddyJones 1y ago

Completely agree to an extent the government taxes also pay for libraries, firefighters, police, schools, and infrastructure although they all can be improved and for the amount of taxes we pay they should be top notch state of the art everything unfortunately that’s not the case the libraries are dwindling, schools are teaching propaganda BS, the police get high on power and the infrastructure is decaying we just need the ones making these decisions held accountable

Joel Walbert 1y ago

And all that can be done without government. There are already voluteer fire companies. Private schools that outperform public in every possible way. Infrastructure is done by private companies with government contracts. Communications infrasctucture is mostly private. All the government does is take a cut, and ruin everything. And libraries are dwindling under control of government. Every problem is government. Toll roads, which are private are always smooth. Government roads, never.

DaddyJones 1y ago

Sounds great in theory but still see issues

whom would organize said projects? How would you raise the funds? Who chooses the companies for said projects? How would you hold bad actors accountable?

Not trying to disagree I hate big gov as much as the next guy but the ideas behind the greedy fucks whom have ruined those ideals

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

What about Haiti? It's basically stateless right now. What do you think? Were they better off run by one big gang called the government, or as they are now with several smaller gangs?

https://kesq.com/news/national-world/cnn-world/2024/08/09/exclusive-inside-the-foreign-mission-sent-to-battle-haitis-gangs/

#anarchy

Joel Walbert 1y ago

Failed state is not the same thing. And those people dont have the mindset for a stateless society

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

A failed state leaves a vacuum, which is statelessness. People believe this is what society used to look like and would look like if there were no government.

Joel Walbert 1y ago

Not when the people involved have similar ideals and goals. Why would say 100000 people who think like me on these issues suddenly turn into tyrants if we got to actually live out our ideals? Nobody ever says everyone has to do it. That's the whole. Self determination for everyone. You want a king, have a king. You want a fascist strong man, be my guest. I wouldnt recommend either, but its your life to live how you choose.

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

nostr:nevent1qqsrmw8wuhl95sseaakgv6nmwfjhusmpu730jlu8jqdymgufwn8d49qpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygx6ee3mqrzzumsp05qd6xg2jv5rscqzlavhhpq7khherhj0rn5yjypsgqqqqq4qla0xah

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

*live peacefully

Joel Walbert 1y ago

that's the idea. There will always be criminality. But when a group grants itself special rights, and gives itself immunity from crimes, well that is a bigger problem than some random criminals running around terrorizing people. Those can be put down. The government will keep coming back with more and more firepower until you submit or die

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

I'd like to see libertarians and/or anarchists establish their own free society somewhere, as people have tried to do in the past according to other models. Perhaps the Free Private Cities project will succeed in this. I'm aware of the New Hampshire Free State Project, but I don't think it's really gotten much traction, and they are simply trying to take over the state of New Hampshire, not really create a stateless place.

Joel Walbert 1y ago

I really like the free private city idea, although one current drawback imo is its a big money proposition generally. I mean, sort of understandable as they gotta get people with capital there to get things going, but out of reach for most currently. As for the FSP, I had actually considered moving there years back when they first chose NH, but life happened so, never got to make the move

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

I still have to study the Free Private Cities idea further, but one question that comes to mind is why have The City™ be the ONLY "government" services provider? That means you would have one entity with a monopoly, which may not be the best arrangement. Could it be possible to have competing entities vying for customers to provide government services to?

Joel Walbert 1y ago

Its my understanding all rules and such are outlined in contracts. And as more and more exist, they would be in competition with each other. And since the freedom minded are the ones who would moving to these cities, the contract issuing entity (who or whatever that would be) would have incentive to have the best 'rules'. If you don't like city A, check out city B. It wouldn't be so much anyone has authority over another, just contractual agreements between individuals.

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

I read through the Free Private Cities white paper and found this answer to the question, which agrees with what you said:

"Allowing competing security service providers with their own rules and thus competing legal systems may appear theoretically attractive

for reasons of preventing monopolies. In practice, however, the effort and inconvenience involved (transaction costs) are probably too high. It would take years for rules to develop in the market on how to resolve collisions between the various providers and legal systems. In practice, the owners of the strongest security service could do what they want.

"Once the model of Free Private Cities has proven itself profitable, then competitors will inevitably appear on the scene. This is the best guarantee for the residents that the respective Operators will not abuse their position of power. Apart from that, the right of every contract citizen to self-defence and the corresponding support of third parties against attacks remain unaffected or expressly guaranteed by contract."

https://free-cities.org/free-private-cities-whitepaper/

Joel Walbert 1y ago

Forgot I had this sitting in my inbox.

https://underthrow.substack.com/p/when-governments-compete-you-win

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

Thanks, I'm going to read this now. Max Borders looks like an interesting author.

By the way, I see you use Substack, as do I. I wish there was a Nostr client that was a Substack clone. I think nostr:nprofile1qqs04xzt6ldm9qhs0ctw0t58kf4z57umjzmjg6jywu0seadwtqqc75spzpmhxue69uhnzdps9enrw73wd9hszynhwden5te0wp6hyurvv4cxzeewv4eszynhwden5te0wfjkccte9enrw73wd9hsxv8qkt's Highlighter app comes closest, but I like the read-aloud function Substack has (which I have only also seen on Snort), and how you can subscribe.

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

There is this, however:

sms 1y ago

What kind of vacuum?🤔

m4dire0701 1y ago

Haiti doesn't look like anarchy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Government_and_politics

Marakesh 𓅦 1y ago

The State of Haiti, such as it is, has an appointed acting prime minister and it's legislature is vacant. The National Police force is so inadequate that a foreign police service compromise of Kenyans has been called in. The de facto president of Haiti might actually be a gang leader called "Barbecue."

"Over 85% of the Port-au-Prince metropolitan area is under gang control; around 600,000 people have been forced to flee their homes; some 2 million people live in fear of being raped or killed in their households"

https://kesq.com/news/national-world/cnn-world/2024/08/09/exclusive-inside-the-foreign-mission-sent-to-battle-haitis-gangs/#:~:text=Over%2085%25%20of%20the%20Port%2Dau%2DPrince%20metropolitan%20area%20is%20under%20gang%20control%3B%20around%20600%2C000%20people%20have%20been%20forced%20to%20flee%20their%20homes%3B%20some%202%20million%20people%20live%20in%20fear%20of%20being%20raped%20or%20killed%20in%20their%20households

m4dire0701 1y ago

Well, i guess statism won't solve this problem. Anything dreadful you could imagine happening under anarchy is much worse under statism

onpoint 1y ago

Sad to say the least.

m4dire0701 1y ago

Anarchy is spontaneous order. Statism is chaos