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as a multi-ethnic ( 25% Russian, 25% Ukrainian ) individual born in Kiev my opinion is that it's not about geography but the simple fact that Ukraine, just like Putin said, *IS* Russia.

or rather Russia is Ukraine. the oldest Russian city is actually Kiev, which celebrated 1,500 years when i lived there, whereas Moscow isn't even 1,000 years old.

war between Russia and Ukraine is a civil war like between North and South in American history.

Putin-fags say Ukraine is not a country. actually it is Russia that is not a country. it is even called "Federation" because even the stupidest of Russians understand that Chechens aren't Russian.

Simply put Ukrainians are more Russian than a large portion of citizens of the Russian Federation.

US / NATO interfered in the politics of both Russia itself and Ukraine but was actually successful in Ukraine by dangling EU membership in front of impoverished Ukrainians who saw it as a lifeline.

Putin rightly saw this as US / NATO biting off a part of Russia and having already failed to control Ukraine through installing puppet leaders had no choice other than to invade.

Dissident Sound 1y ago

Putin was also pretty clear in interview with Tucker that the reason for invasion he gave to his citizens ( defending against NATO ) was bullshit. he asked Tucker " are we here to have a serious conversation or a show ? " Obviously Putin couldn't plainly state that he lied to his countrymen about the reason for the "operation" but to a thinking person it was pretty obvious that this is what he was in fact saying.

Putin then proceeded to explain the REAL reason was that Ukraine is Russia and he wasn't going to allow it to be split off. Same reason why Lincoln went to war with the South.

Of course tucker ( like you Mike ) couldn't understand this, because he was coming from the perspective of conservative propaganda about "biolabs" etc. and not from understanding of Russian history. which is why Putin had to give him an hour long lecture but Tucker thought it was some kind of a trick ... it wasn't.

so this isn't really about toppling Russia as much as about biting off a third of Russia, namely Ukraine.

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Dissident Sound 1y ago

of course Putin's history lecture was biased. the part about Russia and Ukraine being one was true. the lie was that Ukraine was a part of Russia when really Russia was a part of Ukraine.

Kiev to Moscow is like Rome or Athens to London, Berlin and Paris.

Kiev was the cradle of civilization and Moscow came later ... in fact Russians were so butthurt about how "provincial" ( using the words from Anna Karenina ) Moscow was that they had to build St. Petersburg to get away from that shame.

St. Petersburg was supposed to be the European Capital that Kiev was.

I have been to St. Petersburg - it's fancy - but the weather is shit. Weather in Kiev 100 times better.

Dissident Sound 1y ago

at the beginning of the war i supported the west offering assistance to Ukraine as i thought Putin is power tripping and needs a reality check.

but with the human losses i think now ending the war should be the goal regardless of the terms of the peace.

ending the war doesn't mean ending military support to Ukraine but rather going back to negotiations while being willing to lose Eastern Ukraine territory.

ending military support without securing a peace deal would be the worst possible course of action.

we should give Ukraine all the support it needs BUT on the condition that they will move to sign a peace deal and end the war.

instead Ukraine still is unwilling to make any concessions and prefers to keep sending men to their deaths which will essentially extinct Ukrainians as a people ...

Mike Dilger ☑️ 1y ago

I will have to rewatch part of that interview. When Putin said "are we here to have a serious conversation or a show?" I took a different meaning from it, based on Tucker's question.

For my whole life I've thought of Ukraine as a part of Russia. My family history (ancient as it was) was out of Russian Ukraine... my family moved to Ukraine during Katherine the Great's reign, and left in 1910, and during that entire duration it was Russia. My Grandfather had to renounce forever all allegiance and fidelity to Nicholas II Emperor of all the Russias (he also had to swear he was not a polygamist). The fact that it was independent from 1991 to 2014 (23 years) seems to be the exception rather than the rule. And yes there was a lot of division between and shit between, outlawing languages, starvings, etc. BUT I don't take sides (I don't have a dog in the race). In principle I support the right of people to be independent if they want to, but as a practical matter I try to make sure the people trying to be independent know how tough that is and to be sure they think they can succeed (Palestinians included, who I have always advised to just leave and make a better life somewhere else).