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No, Monero is not cash at all. It doesn’t solve the problems that a cash needs to solve, Monero is unauditable, Inflation bugs are undetectable.

This is why Satoshi built Bitcoin the way he built it. If you think Monero is cash, you say satoshi was an idiot, since he was very much aware of the options Monero choose, but purposely didn’t use because he knew why previous eCash systems failed.

If you understood how great the breakthrough of Bitcoin is, you’d be working on Lightning and not Monero.

So it is an IQ test indeed, but the results are the opposite of what you think. You advocating for Monero shows that you never understood Bitcoin’s innovation to begin with.

XMR Future 2y ago

Bitcoin lacks fungibility because it isn't private. When it comes to a digital public ledger, privacy and fungibility are inseperably linked. An ideal property of money is fungibility. You audit Monero the same way as Bitcoin: by running a node.

No, I've already told you I don't think Satoshi was an idiot.

Lightning is a centralization prone, non-settlement second layer, with subpar privacy, that most use with custodial wallets. Satoshi created bitcoin. Satoshi didn't create lightning and nothing about it in the white paper. Are you saying Satoshi was an idiot?

Previous ecash failed because of centralization (byzantine generals problem) and was easily shut down. Monero uses the same innovative concept of decentralized consensus as Bitcoin so no clue what you are talking about.

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Discussion

Michael Anton Fischer 2y ago

No, you imply he was an idiot, because he explained exactly why ledger needs to be public.

If supply isn’t stable, it’s not a viable money. Monero doesn’t solve this issue. For all we know Monero already has an inflation bug.

Everything monero tries to solve can be built on lightning without compromising the money.

XMR Future 2y ago

Bitcoin supply is not stable. It is constantly dwindling because of lost or burned coins. 21 million is theory not reality. Bad for price discovery and stability.

Range proofs assure this inflation bug is not the case. Bitcoiners love espousing transparency, but never take advantage of it by manually verifying. They just trust a node to correctly audit, exactly as monero.

Building on a second layer is already a compromise. You give up final settlement. You create centralized nodes. And now you have most lightning users giving up custody to use it. Shame.

Michael Anton Fischer 2y ago

Nice, we are at the point where discussion always ends, with Monero heads making up stuff.

No, range proofs insure you not against an inflation bug.

And a layer 2 in this case is the opposite of compromise. You don’t compromise the main layer, thus using a layer 2.

And no, the supply is not twindling. Lost coins are dormant, this doesn’t hurt monetary function at all. It would only be the case if coins were actively taken out of wallets or added in.

Thomas Paine 2y ago

I wish we could leave these overheated conversations with Twitter. Nostr should stay constructive, shouldn't it?

I'm a BTC maxi, but I see the issues with privacy. I know that the finite supply of BTC would fix some of the problems we have in our economy right now. But oh my god, I wish that humanity will never has to use a money with such bad privacy capabilities as todays BTC.

Silent payments may improve the situation, but Coinjoin is simply not enough. Coinjoined BTC is tainted and gives the enemies of BTC a huge attack vector at the on-/offramps.

I hope BTC will continue to rise and prosper. And I hope I will be able ti spend it without fear and concerns.

Michael Anton Fischer 2y ago

Then build privacy tools on Bitcoin. Don’t advocate for 💩coins and especially don’t lie about your favorite 💩coin or bitcoin

XMR Future 2y ago

I'm not overheated, to me, it is just discussion. I'm not getting nasty or calling anyone names. Not angry with anyone either.

Notice his reaction to your benign and reasonable comment. Anything threatening to his belief and he reverts to accusations and calling you a shitcoiner.

Coinjoins are great, I use them when I use bitcoin. If bitcoin increases to be on par or better in privacy to monero, with no serious tradeoffs, I wont need Monero anymore. Until then...

XMR Future 2y ago

I'm still here. Discussion only ends when you want it to. You are the only one making claims about me making stuff up and mind reading my beliefs of satoshi.

Layer 2 does make several compromises. You are either dishonest or ignorant if you insist there is no trade-off.

Dormant implies they will eventually be used again. They wont. They are lost coins and are effectively (not literally) the same as removing them from circulation.

If you manually verify and tally entire utxo set of bitcoin everytime you audit, I will concede it is effectively different. Otherwise, there is in practice, no difference as relying on a monero node for sound supply. Yet to find a bitcoiner who takes advantage of bitcoin's transparency and does this.

Range proofs

https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/dispelling-monero-fud/#you-cant-audit-the-monero-supply

goatmeal 2y ago

>everything x tries to solve can be built on lightning

okay I'm still waiting. let's go tell all the curve users and people selling ecstasy pills that they should just stop doing what they are doing and twiddle their thumbs until one day lightning labs makes the heavens rain with cheese. this is one thing you maxipads do all the time that I just don't understand. do you really think the world is waiting on you to deliver the solutions to everyone's problems and network effects just don't exist? you will have to face the reality that you are late and everyone doing all these things have already moved on.