My dad is somewhat of a prepper. He grows all his own food, produces all his own. Electricity and is off the water grid..

His argument against Bitcoin is always EMPs shutting down the electricity grid and the conversation, kind of just stops there because yeah, sure, if the electricity goes, no one is going to be using Bitcoin. Duh.

I think bitcoiners tend to be this interesting niche of Optimistic Preppers. We see the world going to shit, but like a young girl with a crush on a fuckboi, we "say I can fix him."

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Interesting analysis

If electricity goes down then you can’t really bank or use credit cards either … you can still use your cash or whatever you have for barter.

After a week or 3, cash won’t be worth anything either. Either through supply side hyperinflation or simply due to the fact that you can’t eat or drink cash.

Exactly. EMP is a very strange concern because if your electricity is down for THAT long, your entire society goes to shit and you have way bigger problems than money.

and he's ready for that

If you were to face a long period of no electricity then your banks won’t work, your cards won’t work, and after a few weeks neither will your cash. It’s a flawed argument.

The real case for Bitcoin is prepping for the collapse of the hegemony of the dollar. This is much more likely to happen than some sort of prolonged global electricity outage.

Every global reserve currency in history has failed.

Yeahhh that’s why my uncle stacks gold. Sigh

Ah yes, the divisibility of gold, the pinnacle of money. Imagine you’re cold, wet and hungry shaving off a couple grams of gold off your bar, weighing it with an old fashioned scale (EMPs wiped out digital scales).

absolutely. It's really a problem with someone being unwilling to open their mind

Bitcoin is global the power grid isn’t going down everywhere all at once simultaneously.

agree

Prepper mindset: mitigate against possible bad outcomes, but meanwhile keep going / pursuing opportunities.

Doomer mindset: no sense making the most of things, it’s all going to be over “soon” anyway.

Gotta be careful not to let your prepper mindset lead to doomerism.

That's kind of my point. is that most preppers tend to also be doomers. It's a small subset that I actually think they can make a difference to fix the world

Do he know there are nodes in EMP proof bunkers?

he doesn't really know s*** about Bitcoin and isn't curious enough to learn.

When you've made it in life and you're 75, you're a bit less curious.

It's understandable.

"When you've made it in life and you're 75, you're a bit less curious."

if the entire grid went down all around the world (unlikely), you're gonna have bigger problems than losing your #btc stack

absolutely. My point is that he's pretty prepared for those things

sounds like a perdy good dad u got there

💯

The EMP solar flare meteor strike is the gold bugs’ only argument.

In that case I don’t want gold, I want lead.

🤌

69, nice!

You mean you hope you'll be able to kill me and take my food instead of trading precious metal for it.

I'd wish you luck, but instead I wish it for myself and my loved ones and others with brains. Get fucked, clown.

Without internet, electricity, or communication, or the myriad things our society depends on, we aren’t going to be trading gold coins with each other at the farmers market. Security is going to be far more important than some naive hope of living like the Amish while trading gold and silver coins. This is the fantasy sold by gold and silver dealers, but it is pure fantasy.

Not only is gold nearly worthless for trade with very high slippage (how many transactions have you made with gold?) Anything physical can and will be taken by force, including gold.

Bitcoin works better than gold, even in gold’s best use case scenario, because it can’t be taken by force.

Ideally it should only take one bullet to kill you, bud

Sorry that your gold doesn’t work.

A gold bullet would work fine tho? I don't get what you mean. Lead doesn't work without a charge either

It won’t work as money, even in the apocalypse. You can’t even spend it even in the 3rd world without huge slippage.

If I wanted to avoid slippage I'd skip foreplay with your mom

we good and still can pump gas with hand pumps for our carbonated petroleum motors in ourvehicles...

This is part of why you need silver and possibly gold

I'd rather have lead than either of those

that attitude really makes me not want to converse with you any longer.

this is a hypothetical discussion of a kill or be killed world.

Well good for you getting to pick who you want to converse with. I don't have anyone around I want to converse with, I just reply to add information where it's needed, call out bullshit, make bad people feel worse, make good people feel better, etc.

If the electricity goes away, so does his bank account. Holding cash beyond some emergency funds makes no sense. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. What then?

Maybe silver and gold

thats regression. We moved away for several reasons.

1.heavy in large quantities

2.susceptible to robbery

3.coins can be shaved, dust collected and melted to mint new coins

4.you wont cross borders with an excess of either metal without probability of confiscation

nah it would still be progress because most people use Uncle Sam Dinobux (USD) instead of crypto to begin with

I see the counter argument. But we moved away from it for the reasons I listed. It isn’t the most efficient. Though better than fiat, it is not necessarily progress when we have ₿itcoin

Losing the power grid and electronics might seem like regression for those of us who have Bitcoin, but Facebook going away would give us more than we lose with the loss of Bitcoin

he already grows all his own food and is off the electricity and water grid. he just lives.

To the other guy's point about silver and gold, lead is the most important metal in this situation

bang bang 😉🫡

Your dad sounds like a content man. He’ll be fine with or without bitcoin for now and lucky for him, his kid can help him out if need be.

💯💪

I'm always two minds about this. The argument is for something that's never happened in the history of the world. You'd need a group of people that truly just want to cause chaos and watch the world burn, but that requires so much organization and planning I don't know how someone steeped in chaos could ever pull that off. It's like a walking contradiction.

On the other hand... Your dad only has to be proven right once 😂🤣

My role is to say okay. he has that so I'm going to invest in the optimistic future because my downside is covered

Or just a bigger Carrington event or something

I'm always intrigued by the prevalence of "preppers" in the USA. Seems to me the USA is literally the last country that will go to the dogs if the world falls apart.

I don’t know about that. We have some soft people in the US who don’t know what to do once they get punched in the nose. Things would go to shit here just as quickly because people are still people.

Fair enough but I think total chaos, anarchy, and collapse of government etc is far less likely in the USA than many citizens seem to think.

If an EMP goes off, everything is down and cash probably won't exist by then, so everything will be trade and barter (or chaos, theft and violence). But when power is restored and nodes are spun up, you btc stack is ready to go.

Electricity isn’t going anywhere lmao.

I just asked about this very thing (no power) the other day in another feed. Only got one response. Nice to see some others here. Yes, it is far fetched, but for those that survive (heaven forbid) a nuclear blast(s) because of proximity it could be a real thing. Sure, there may be some generating of solar power but the “what if” still exists.

A healthy balance of digital scarcity & physical scarcity is the best approach as a prepper. Gotta be prepared for both situations. 10/10 for your dad growing his own food, does he do any cows, chickens, pigs, ect?

sheep + chickens

That’s awesome 👏 I’m hoping to start doing both egg & meat chickens soon! 🐓

Same argument for quantum computing if that eventually broke everything.

Like your dad, if that’s someone’s concern then work to build a life where you have no need for a monetary system.

Saving in bitcoin along the way can help you build that life faster for you and the ones you love.

Can't retire on spam and brass.

Prepping is just what you do for the mandibles chapter before the Bitcoin standard.

You or your dad may like this book https://nostarch.com/practical-doomsday

I’m the old man prepper in this situation, except I’ve adopted bitcoin. My older brothers, also preppers, asked what happens to bitcoin if either the internet or electric grid goes down. My answer was: “We prep for the most likely scenario, power outages, weather catastrophes, civil unrest. The greater the catastrophe, the less likely the scenario. A long electric or internet disruption would cripple our government. Which makes the situation highly unlikely. Even more unlikely is the entire world looses power or internet. Even then all we need is one bitcoin node to survive. Every bitcoin node contains the entire blockchain. Every transaction since the genesis block is recorded on an immutable ledger.

Bitcoin transactions have been relayed across the globe via ham radio.

In the event of a global tragedy… yes, we will trade: food, work, money, sex, booze and bullets, but humans are resilient. Society will rebuild quickly. We retain the knowledge to rebuild the electrical and internet grids quickly and bitcoin will be the first money to reemerge. Maybe you should put 1% or 2% of your savings into bitcoin just in case it catches on.”

If an EMP goes off and there is no electricity, then regular bank accounts, payment options, credit cards, PayPal, etc all goes away. And there is a good chance it never comes back ie when power is restored your funds may have been ‘affected’. With Bitcoin your money will be right where you left it.