nostr:npub18m76awca3y37hkvuneavuw6pjj4525fw90necxmadrvjg0sdy6qsngq955 (and any other clients),

When npubs I follow change their profile pics (and other data), it confuses me since I no longer recognize them at a glance.

Please allow me to decline automatic pic updates for npubs I follow. Just cache the old value, and maybe show me a little icon indicating that a newer pic is available.

(Not pointing fingers, but nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl is a problem.)

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Discussion

This is what you see in Nostur when someone changes their pfp or username

That’s close to what I want. Just the inverse. That is, keep the old one and put the new one in the small dot.

Yup, Nostur has some tiny stuff like this fogured out. It's neat that you can also delete the info.

Nostur is extremely feature rich 🤌🏾

It is. It took me a while to adjust it and get used to it, but now on Android I miss it very much😮‍💨

The UI/UX definitely took me some time to get use to. So different than Damus, which is way nicer to use imo

Nothing fitted me like Nostur. I tried Damus twice, also Primal etc. No, Nostur was my favorite.

It’s like a toolbox. Everything you want is there. It’s always my go-to when I need something specific done that I can’t find on Damus

Nostur also works very well on we all k connection. And pic upload was for some reason much faster. I miss Nostur🫤

*weak connection

Yes. There’s the turtle mode for slow connection. Super handy

Is Amethyst similar to Nostur?

I can't say, I'm just a normie user, from my view it's more similar than Damus or Primal. But Amethyst for example shows all the likes and responses to my notes together, that bothers me a lot and sometimes I miss something. Here's a lot things that react to a long press, like choosing emoticons for reactions, but I didn't know that and was missing a lot until someone told me.

Interesting. I want to try it on a friend’s android phone

So all the name and pfp changes on Nostr are nostr:npub1m4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvsajc2jl ?

Of course.

Yes

Notedeck caches once and doesn’t update… i like it a lot.

I see some privacy issues here. Someone might start giving more value on their privacy and change the picture to something more low-profile. Respecting the user's decision is a better choice in this case imo.

Once it’s out there, it’s out there. I respect people’s option to change their profile pics. But it’s my eyeball seeing the image. Who ought to have say over what I choose to have my own screen show me?

If you're a responsible relay operator invested in the ethos of this space...that first sentence really hits hard.

If one of my users wants or needs to change their pic URL in this space, I don't wanna be one of the assholes that gets in their way.

I fully support people freely choosing to change their profile pics as often as they like.

I fully support relay operators freely choosing to honor or ignore updates to profile pics at their own discretion.

What I’m asking for is the same freedom to choose at the client (recipient) level.

Clients already have tooling to allow users to conditionally ignore some kinds of incoming information: mute conversation, mute user, mute keyword, etc. All I’m asking for is to conditionally ignore another kind of broadcast, the profile pic update.

There's no such thing as a profile pic update. There's just a kind 0 event, so if you block updates, you block any change to the profile.

You would have to locally cache the pic and then never clear the cache (which is a bug, not a feature, sorry), list the NIP-05 next to the handle in the notes (easiest fix), or use NIP-81 (which is work to implement, but has the most long-term potential).

You could also cache the profile event and never update it, but that's legit retarded.

Nip-81 is the winner but clients just don’t want to do the work.

NIP-81 seems fine. It puts the client configuration on the relay but satisfies the same requirement.

It allows your configuration to travel with you when your client rugs you.

That’s a good point. The ability to change clients easily is one of Nostr’s great strengths. It’s important to not sacrifice this feature in the interest of achieving something else.

Easiest (and most fun!) fix is nicknames

That's NIP-81, but most of the clients haven't implemented it.

nip81 is also not visible or easily found on the nips repo tho, wen merge?

> You would have to locally cache the pic and then never clear the cache

I’m thinking something like this:

1. Receive and store (cache) all profile update events.

2. Allow user to “pin” a particular pic image, but continue to receive and store updated profile events. That is, in client-side storage, map the npub to the note id with the pinned profile pic.

3. When a follow’s profile updates, show “ has a new profile pic” as a notification like any other. The notification UI can have a pin/unpin button or something to allow the user to decide whether to accept the new pic as the pinned one.

4. When viewing an npub’s profile, show the gallery of previous profile pics. Allow client to pic one to pin. Or “unpin” to always use the latest profile pic.

Notably, Telegram shows users’ prior profile pics. I don’t think it gives users the ability to pin other users’ pics (for their own viewing), but it does preserve the history of pics you can look through.

Okay, that doesn't sound at all creepy. 😅

At any rate, anything in-app is siloed data and will trap people into a client, but it allows you to write all sorts of nasty stuff you don't want anyone else knowing about, so I see the upside. If you're doing it client-side, why bother even using the pics from the profiles? You could change my profile pic to anything.

> why bother even using the pics from the profiles? You could change my profile pic to anything.

If you’ll pardon the philosophical diversion, the value of a profile pic at all, IMO, is recognizability at a glance. There are plenty of ways to share one-off content images. The point of a profile pic, specifically, is so the viewer can identify the content creator quickly.

To this end, using the pic that the creator has chosen makes sense in nearly all cases. The creator has indicated “this is how you can quickly identify me”.

When a profile pic changes, especially frequently, it breaks the very point of having one. It’s a new, unrecognized image in a scenario where recognizability is the primary function.

I accept that the above is my opinion. I accept that others have their own opinions about the purpose and value of profile pics.

What I’m looking for is a solution that preserves the utility of profile-pic-as-recognizable-avatar in the face of these differences of opinion.

There. Fixed the problem.

I wonder what would happen if someone used Lorem Picsum https://picsum.photos/200

If you're a client developer...that last sentence hits hard.

A user changed their profile pic URL to a broken link. Do I continue to show the old one, just because I remember it, and the user is familiar with it?

It’s not hard, IMO. Give both people options. Let people change their declared profile pics. Let recipients decided which historically declared profile pic to view. There doesn’t have to be exactly one solution for everyone.

Just support nip-81 and allow for petnames!

Lock down that profile gypsy before we are told thats what nip05 is for :D

Too late.

When I see stuff like this, I start to think that Nostr only works for avatars/ anonymous profiles. Sharing personal stuff here seems too risky.

Every HTTP client has always had the option of caching anything it receives indefinitely. This is not a new phenomenon.

We need real human connection on the internet, but if I upload a picture of my face on Nostr, that picture could be available to everyone, forever, across multiple relays. Because of that, I'm always extremely selective about what I post here. That hesitation creates a negative incentive to share at all. You might argue that this applies to every social network, but their more closed nature makes data harvesting much harder. Plus, when you update your picture, you can trust that your old one will no longer be visible. The consequences feel smaller—at least psychologically.

The consequences are objectively smaller.

It's not only risky, it's nearly impossible.

Most clients don't pin notes effectively, or at all, and the timelines are a linear shit-show, so the PfP is the only place you can put a new picture, where most of your followers will see it. I used to just pin them to the top of my feed, on Twitter, and had a painting as an avatar. Everyone arriving new or just curious could see the new picture and the avatar hardly ever changed.

But no. We don't do that here. We are all anon here or we want to be frozen in time at 22.

For every person who is horrified at seeing my new PfP, there are at least 10 who can't see the new PfP and ask me how to fix that, because the clients cache everything and the relays refuse to update profiles, even if I broadcast it. People are still zapping me on Alby because they can't see that I changed to Minibits, so I had to link the wallets.

Every client currently displays a different version of my profile. Some from over a year ago.

And I'm the only person who can prove that because most other people are literally terrified of changing anything ever. Which is just going to get worse, if every typo correction or new banner image results in thousands of people receiving a message in their client. Everyone now knows that they can't change anything because it creates a flood of spam, and there's no point in changing anything, as so many people refuse to accept it or don't even see the changes.

Profile stasis.

Also doesn't make sense to bother with cryptographic keys and NIP-05s, if users insist on identifying people they know by picture. Anyone can just copy my picture link and put it in their profile. Same with my handle. It is not a unique identifier, it's just a convenience or decoration.

I for one support your choice to change your profile characteristics at will, as often as you like. You control the rate at which your published info changes.

I’m asking for a client to give me the equivalent, consumer-side freedom—to control the rate at which consumed info changes.

That's fine. Why you had to turn this thread into another sitting of the Laeserin Haters Club, is beyond me.

But you do you.

Sorry about that. I think my original message came off harsher than I meant it. You make good content, and your profile pic updates are only a minor annoyance to me.

It’s not that I don’t recognize you when you change it. Same face, obviously. What I think gets to me is that it commands my attention. Like an advertisement in the middle of a video. Something I have to look at and assess. It takes me out of the flow of what I was doing.

I block video ads by paying to upgrade on every platform that supports it. I avoid watching media with ads that I can’t pay to opt out of. I’m looking for the same opt-out here.

Aside: Someone brought up a good point which is that the profile pics are themselves out-of-band. They’re just links. It’s the HTTP server that actually determines the displayed bytes, and that server can optionally serve different content arbitrarily.

So even an option to ignore updates wouldn’t necessarily freeze the profile pic on the recipient side. It takes cacheing at the byte level as well.

Really I should stop complaining and just write my own client.

stop following her

it's not that i don't like her but the noise ratio is high

Have I been upgraded from the mute list to the don't -follow-them list?

yeah, it's a thing

Make Will nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s Support Nip-81 and allow for relationships/petnames!!