One risk with value for value public payment models is that people may see N amount of zapped sats, and think, “that’s received enough compensation”. Their internal model of what something is/was worth is in equilibrium - yet the global utility/value is still higher.

It may translate into a deferred or more balanced zapping across content - however it’s likely to be a friction point too - where people internally question the above before contributing, and either zap other things or fewer things.

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Doesn’t seem happen on ‘go fund me’ type sites. A lot of those far exceed their goal

I think project based funding with rewards is a different scenario than I was focused on. I don’t see it as value for value.. more support this cause or fundraiser.

I’m more looking at ZAPed Nostr posts, blog posts, etc. More reaction and higher volume (usually smaller amounts), than the explicit ‘Fund this project target’ style.

Yeah it’s a possibility. People may see how much a creator is earning for their content and they may be more reluctant to zap them. I imagine when this becomes mainstream they’ll remove the ability to see the total zapped assuming they have the option

No idea. I find it interesting how it’s not a clear and simple as it seems.

Individual clients could make other decisions or support user choice over poster. One suggestion was to show average value instead of total amount - but again, it’s up to clients or users to choose.

I see it similarly.

At the end, the poster can decide to use an address that creates zap notes, or not. But if you don't show your zaps, you might cut off further reach based on high zap count.

Also would be interesting to only show average zap count. Which does not leak how many zaps happened, only the size of the average.

Although I think for Value4Value economy, we have to do a mind shift, which is hard.

When we zap a note, we shall not consider the overall value of the note, because then we shall zap that whole amount. (This does not even come to our mind in Fiat Land. We want everything for free, regardless how much it worth.)

We shall zap based on the value we got. This is unrelated from the fact how many people zapped, and how much sats are already collected. If a note gives you value, zap the amount you feel right.

Also an interesting topic on this regard is the equilibrium of supply and demand. Usually on a market, you get a good, if you pay. This means, you have to decide if it worth that much for you or not.

Usually we buy something when we can't get it otherwise and we value it more, than it costs. If something is cheap, people want more of it, but merchants want to sell less of it. The different sides want to optimize for different things.

So it could be hard to translate this behavior into open-sourceness/consume first - pay later.

Also investigating the above statements, one could expect, that we will zap less to something than we would willing to pay if it was a paid product.

Some great ideas and thoughts 🙂

I liked the average zap idea as a concept - it helps set a kind of market price people can compare or evaluate against their own perception.

Isn't this a form of priming though? Once you put a number on a post that's an average it becomes a sort of baseline irrespective of how arbitrary it is.

Right now I don't think its a issue because it's an accumulator and not used as a benchmark but an average would become like that & initial zaps could have a bigger impact on the total amount zapped maybe?

Yep. It would be experimenting. Not sure it would work anyway.. but interesting.

However the purpose of showing an average is to set a baseline (or current market price/value) - so others can choose to go below, meet it or above mentally.

It depends likely more on how many zaps are an average per Nostr post in general. If posts only get 3-4, it’s less useful. If it’s a popular only fans style post, lots of zaps and the zaps likely continue over a longer period of time for that single post (or a blog post, other example exist too).

Makes sense to experiment. I feel like if it shifts to showing Avg zap, that will be like a fair price that people generally don't go below or too much above either 🤷

Nostr seems to have only short-term memory. Doubt if posts from long back will resurface &, be zapped unless reposted frequently, except maybe for blogs.

In any case, exciting times

One can equally say that when people see that others have rewarded something with some value, they may also want to do it. And if they don't see any rewards, they may feel the content isn't worthy and abstain from rewarding it.

And in the second case, if people were driven to spread their rewards to other content, that would actually be a great outcome.

Yep. Peer validation is a driver for more zaps too. It’s also a network effect if shared or reposted as well, brings new eyes and such.