Banning doesn't work on Nostr except for the the extreme measure of the relay blocking the client IP. Since they often can't meaningfully block IP's without collateral damage and administrative burden, public relays can't do much to truly block a bad user as it is costless to generate more npubs.

"Ban" in your client is only hiding those messages. Your client still needs to download their garbage in order to filter it from your view. Maybe you don't notice but client-side filtering means both the relay and your own resources are being consumed by messages you don't want to see.

Some clients tell users to cope better with resource consumption by telling them to turn off Global and Public Chats entirely. Then you download a lot less since you see only people you follow.

The only real solution here is to use paid relays where there is a cost to getting blocked by the relay.

Web of Trust informing relay-to-relay synchronization of a "Strong Set" of popular npubs would go far to reduce spam while also helping the relay servers to cope with load.

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Discussion

Relays can blacklist pubkeys

Pubkeys are free to spin up, I think that’s Wareen’s point?

Maybe new pubkeys can be required to have some POW to not be rejected?

When I first heard of POW on nostr I thought it sounded terrible… but im starting to think it’s a good idea, especially on npubs as you say

I had the same feeling: sats are the pow.

But for ppl without easy access to sats (precoiner, no experience with LN) having a built-in way of proving you’re a human is a good idea

“sats are the pow” - love that phrase!

™️😂

Yeah. I just wonder what the sweet spot is for enough POW to deter spammers, but not too much to prohibit mobile keygen. If the spammer is using cloud infrastructure, then this may not be possible

I see sats as derivate of bitcoins PoW. Making PoW work once was hard enough.

Not everybody has sats readily available; shouldn’t be a requirement to start using a new protocol/product you don’t know to jump through so many hoops

How would PoW be any easier?

And taking a longer term perspective: Sats will be much more adopted, but the issues of PoW will never go away

maxPenetration

I think I’d you mix POW with WoT you can get a sweet spot that is not costly; spammer and new user start from zero reputation but they should quickly differentiate themselves and the required POW can decrease as their WoT increases

WoT?

Web of trust

“I know you’re a human, I vouch for you X”

“This npub writes interesting things I vouch for it X/50”

I see. There’s a lot more arbitrary design choice in that kind of system, but hopefully someone will figure it out

Oh I thought it was about "social" censorship. If you can't use your pub to make posts, it's as bad as losing all your followers.

Agree, anon spamming is very easy.

A long time ago SMTP (email) crossed having the majority of messages being spam. This is because the cost of distribution is placed on the RECEIVER. Nostr is the same way with the cost on the relays and receiver. This is a breeding ground for spam and within a few months Nostr will be unusable. The true solution to this is to place the cost on the sender, somehow. But with zaps in place I think there's probably a way to do it.

Please watch https://mikedilger.com/gossip-relay-model.mp4 and listen to the Mike Dilger episode on https://nostrovia.org/ and let me know if that fixes the issues you're seeing.

https://github.com/mikedilger/gossip and https://coracle.social/ are trying to make that work.

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Maybe read this too: https://fiatjaf.com/3f106d31.html

There is a sort of WoT in nostrgram.co Shows the notes of your friends friends. Hence the name "friends+" I actually find it more interesting then global.

That's a good idea and can resolve some of the problems I guess !

Give it a try. It works really well.

I will 😁