Subnostr

I support Ukraine. Let's use all their men as cannon fodder until they have no men left and can no longer sire children. This is how we all need to support Ukraine.

Seriously though: both sides (pro-war and anti-war) think the current situation is horrid. The pro-war people think we need to go all-out against Russia to stop them, otherwise they keep slaughtering Ukrainians. The anti-war people think we need a peace deal, otherwise they keep slaughtering Ukrainians. I think both sides want to save Ukrainians. Supporting the 'current thing' is most definitely NOT supporting Ukraine.

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Discussion

mark tyler 2y ago

So let’s assume for a moment that their men are rational actors that independently wish to defend their land and their religious freedom but lack food and weapons to do so. Are you against sending them weapons and food to help them with their desire?

Mike Dilger ☑️ 2y ago

No.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 2y ago

Lets talk about that assumption for a moment though. I'm sure there are some rational actors remaining in Ukraine that independently wish to defend their land. But I doubt any of them are fighting to defend their religious freedom. Because Ukraine doesn't have religious freedom. Kiev doesn't allow it.

Now let's assume for the moment that there are rational actors in Russia that independently wish to defend their land and their way of life and they believe that NATO has been slowly inexorably marching on Moscow, but they want military support. Would you be against sending them weapons? And if so, what is the difference between Ukraine and Russia that makes your opinion change when the actors of your hypothetical are swapped?

mark tyler 2y ago

I thought they have more than they would in Russia? We probably only need one individual to correctly expect less religious or otherwise freedom.

You can’t defend something you don’t already own, and I don’t think we could claim that the Russian soldiers own any of the land they’ve taken in this conflict.

pam 2y ago

how do you see this playing out ? There is not going to be a peace deal because Russia wants to control the port. Nato is being a jerk. Supplying arms has been standard US modus operandi post WW2. And for some reason this becomes a partisan fight within the US. Ukraine is fired up to fight. IMF who were giving painful loan terms are now hyped up throwing in the cash. Ukraine has always been to Russia what Sicily is to Italy.

This is a good piece : https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-in-afghanistan-we-lost-control-of-our-own-war/

LuisSP 2y ago

did you see how much UA pop decrease? It was 52M in 1991, now it's <35M.

what if they have a few more years of war? Young people die, and many others emigrate.

It does not mater which side wins, both will be weakened, and the muslims and chinese win anyway.