This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think it should be illegal to produce pornography. The industry relies heavily on trafficking and exploitation of women.
Discussion
i've worked in the industry. there isn't that much of this exploitation actually, that stuff is not openly sold.
making it illegal won't help, no different to how making drugs illegal only makes it profitable for criminals.
having said that, it's a horrible industry, even when fully legal.
nobody who isn't already abused works in it.
pretty much all forms of perversion start with a psychopath abusing someone, without exception, homosexuality included. sometimes it's "purely psychological" and only involves introduction of concepts and images but it's still abuse.
banning it won't solve anything. convicting and executing the abusers will, however.
That's why I said we should make it illegal to *produce* pornography.
Obviously we're talking on Nostr, so criminalizing possession or viewing would be futile when there is truly decentralized media.
Make it illegal to produce and distribute, though, and you can prosecute the people who are carrying out the abuse and profiting from it. I think that strikes a balance between holding abusers responsible and avoiding limitations of free speech.
it can't work.
stop appealing to authority.
the problem is the people are zombies obeying their tv and that's that. tv says porn good.
first, this approach to social malaise is doomed to fail
second, those who control the system and the laws want this corruption in the culture
third, take care of your children.
there is no other point to make.
there would be no production of pornography if there was no sexual abuse victims in the first place. this disease runs deep and those who run the society are the abusers, and profit from and depend on the psychological disorder caused by sexual trauma.
I agree with you that legislation alone won't fix social malaise. The first task is to change the hearts and minds of individuals.
Where we disagree, I think, is that I believe legislation can be part of a larger movement of cultural change. The law is a teacher. An imperfect one, yes, but still a teacher.
The primary responsibility lies with parents to form their children in virtue, but I think well-ordered laws can give us a little extra nudge away from vice at times when we need it.
yes, i am steadfastly against any collaboration with the corruption itself, government, in any way whatsoever.
government is just a bunch of lazy pigs painting pictures to pretend they are something they are not and get paid for what other people actually do and then act all indignant when their idiot programs end up achieving the opposite. just look up "cobra effect" for an example of the perverse incentives that government creates.
any solution that imposes things on other people is doomed to fail.
no amount of voting ever changes the nature of the government, as an organisation of freeloaders who have god complexes.
It's not exploitation when they get paid. This is a big problem people not in porn don't understand. Human traffic or not once they become a pornstar they automatically have a better life then you. Disagree compare your paycheck to a pornstars.
It is exploitation regardless of whether victims are paid. Choosing to be abused does not make it cease to be abuse.
I'm sure porn stars are paid much more than me, but who actually believes that's key to a "better life"? That's whack, bro.
Many people actually thats why onlyfans became a thing along with others similar websites. Thats why they made a tv show called the girlfriend experience & many books revolving it. You may disagree but the proof is there & i'm sure all those people who are enjoying their mansions, inground pools, high performance expensive vehicles, & butler service are not feeling like they are living a exploited life.
I'm willing to bet the common people who work 8-14 hour shifts a day with minimum wage pay or a semi-decent pay feel more exploited in their current circumstance then a pornstar does. Do you think Kim Kardashian feels exploited for becoming famous by making a sex tape? The only people who are being exploited are those who are stuck in the trap.
You should be more open minded because not everyone who produces porn is a victim case as you like to paint their picture of them. You should acknowledge we live in a world where the inmoralities seem to hold a perpetual dominance over the societies we live in. Where the phrase sex sells exists we do in fact live in times where wrong seems to be right in finnancial opportunity.
There are people who choose to do porn, there are people who are not feeling exploited but empowered from it, & there are people who are happy not only because it gives the money but it in fact changed their lives completely. We don't have to know or understand why that individual does it, we don't have to think what they are doing is right either, but we do have to accept there is more then one way & not everyone is a victim.
A person whose body is objectified and exploited by countless selfish men do not have to "feel" exploited to be exploited. It's simply a fact, regardless of whether the person volunteers to be exploited.
Porn users and addicts may not realize in the moment how harmful porn consumption is to themselves, but that doesn't mean it isn't harmful. All they know is that it feels good right now. And they can even say (in a way) that they are not "forced" to consume porn; they volunteer to do something that damages them. (In reality they are ensnared.)
Likewise, the porn stars who are sexually exploited may not realize for a time how exploited, objectified, and used they are. They know they get paid well, but they don't always understand how their sexuality (a core part of the human person) is being cheapened and their soul damaged. I believe they realize it at some level, but they justify it because of the money.
Morality is not determined by financial prosperity (wealth can be very deceitful). And morality is key to living a free life. Addicts and prostitutes are not free; they are enslaved. We should discourage the enslavement of their souls.
Your just switching subjects. We're not talking about morality. We're talking about if they are exploited or not morality has nothing to do with participation. Exploitation involves with doing something against their will or taking advantage of them. I can understand that in cultures & religions the body may be considered sacred & they teach porn to be a ominious thing to look down upon.
But if a person chooses to do porn with their body well it's not exploitation their choosing to do it. Theres no blindside in knowing your going to get naked & be fucking for more money then you ever worked in all your previous jobs. Will you be stretched out sure but if your choosing that it's not being exploited.
Do you think victoria secret models are exploited for showing off their bodies in lingerie as well?
I think it is reprehensible and ought to be made illegal, but I don't want the current government to determine what is and is not pornography.
The Cistine Chapel mustn't be, but Cardi B music videos should be, and I don't think our culture knows why.
I do think there is a place for the law to help teach the people these things, though.
We want the law to balance justice and mercy. Dissuade people who produce and distribute pornography, but cut some slack to people who view it—they are often addicted.
I also think there's a fairly easy line that can be drawn. If a video/film's primary purpose is to portray a sex act, then it pretty clearly qualifies as pornography. I think leaves some room for artistic freedom, even if we as individuals might not view a particular thing as especially artistic.
True. Culture is downstream of policy, and the law is a teacher. Maybe first making it illegal to distribute to minors with life-altering fines on it is a start, up the age to 21, then to anyone. But it still begs the question: "what is pornography?"
"Media intended to sexuality arouse the consumer" is a little broad, especially because of that word "intended".
I think blocking distribution becomes difficult. It's too easy to lie about your age to a website. Perhaps it's a place to start though. Treat pornography for minors like alcohol; it's an addictive consumable product.
Defining it is hard because movies and TV often have sexual themes, and as much as I don't care for them, I'm not sure they should be defined as pornography by law. There's clearly a big difference, though, between a movie that has a sex scene and a pornographic video.
i think that the control exists in, and only in, the hands of parents.
such 'laws' are just going to create black markets which is going to increase the violence involved.
it didn't work for alcohol, it didn't work for drugs, why would it work for pictures.
not only that, if you can justify banning one kind of picture you can stretch it to banning other kinds of pictures, and that doesn't really go anywhere good either.
censorship and monopoly claims are immoral.
parents should a) not allow what they don't want their children to see, and b) not be forced to socialise their children with other children whose parents have no morals.
I want to help parents in their task. Parents can try to protect kids from porn, but often the kids will find it anyways, just because it's so pervasive on the internet. I recognize we'll never be able to get rid of it completely, but I think we should make it harder to find and access.