I'm not really into immigration debates, but Italians seem to have been somewhat scammed, lmfao đ€Łđ€Ł

I'm not really into immigration debates, but Italians seem to have been somewhat scammed, lmfao đ€Łđ€Ł

Italy is not a sovereign country, they will ultimately obey von der Leyen.
L'Italie tout comme l'Espagne et le Portugal ont dĂ» vouloir un moment pour leurs propres raisons Ă©conomiques jouer Ă la cupiditĂ© avec les plus aisĂ©s de l'EU ils en ont profitĂ© maintenant ils en paient les frais et la GrĂšce fit de mĂȘme. La mĂ©diterranĂ©e devait ĂȘtre le problĂšme de tous les pays qui s'y tt'rouvent et le doit des migrants l'affaire de tous plus encore de l'ONU mais l'Allemagne du fait de ses besoins de main d'Ćuvre fait l'appel d'air elle se doit de les intĂ©grer mais une rĂšgle de l'UE indiquĂ© que celui qui reçoit se doit d'inscrire le Migrant... Frontex ne respecte point lĂ ce droit auquel nous sommes Tous susceptibles d'avoir recours avec les retentissements du changement climatique
Je nâai jamais dit que cĂ©der leur souverainetĂ© ne leur aie pas convenu Ă un moment donnĂ©, mais câest un fait quâils ne sont plus libre de gĂ©rer leur monnaie. Et cĂ©der la responsabilitĂ© câest cĂ©der la libertĂ©.
Je voulais juste dire quâen temps que candidat vous pouvez faire toutes les promesses que vous voulez, vous nâen ĂȘtes pas pour autant libre, au sein de lâUE de les mettre en pratique.
Elle n'est pas la seule vouloir les deniers de l'EU et ĂȘtre souverain me semble ubuesque d'oĂč le problĂšme de la Pologne au sein de l'EU et le Brexit du Royaume-Uni qui n'a jamais Ă©tĂ© dans une dĂ©marche de solidaritĂ© ni en son sein depuis la guerre des Royaumes d'Europe.
La souverainetĂ© ne me parait pas grotesque, loin de lĂ . Dâailleurs ce nâest mĂȘme pas la souverainetĂ© nationale que je recherche (je me moque dâĂȘtre soumis Ă lâUE, les Ătats Unis ou un gouvernement nacional): ce que je cherche câest la souverainetĂ© individuelle. Ătre ma propre banque avec #bitcoin, ĂȘtre propriĂ©taire de mon contenu avec #nostr, ĂȘtre libre de faire ce quâil me plaĂźt avec mon argent, mes valeurs, ma propriĂ©tĂ©.
Avec nos schĂ©mas Ă©tatiques il me semble utopique de parler de souverainete individuelle, puis nous vivons ensemble et co dependons Ă un moment T des uns Ă autres. Nous sommes les seules ĂȘtres Ă plus dĂ©pendre des autres, dĂšs notre venue au Monde nous mettons plus de plus temps Ă ĂȘtre autonomes par rapport aux autres espĂšces pourtant de par nos Ă©volutions nous sommes les seuls Ă ĂȘtre capables d'avoir preuve de 6 crĂ©ations Ă notre actif Ă ce jour, libres en pensĂ©e oui mais pour le reste nous faisons avec des rĂšgles Ă©tablies pour le bien commun et non individuel (sociologiquement nĂŽtres)
Je suis bien dâaccord avec vous, mais Ă lâĂ©vidence nous vivons sous un modĂšle non-volontaire, et je pense quâun modĂšle dâassociation volontaire nâest pas utopique. Dâailleurs ce type de modĂšle renforcerait nos liens communautaires puisque basĂ©s sur lâentente et lâentre-aide volontaire. Donc penser au bien ĂȘtre individuel Ă©quivaut Ă penser au bien ĂȘtre commun. Jâajoute en fin que le modĂšle existant ne fonctionne clairement pas comme nous le pensions. On peut toujours rĂȘver Ă un monde meilleur :)
Spot on. You don't own your destiny, if you owe 140% of GDP to someone else and you even gave up your own currency and money printer to Brussels.

Haha Money changes people. Just saying đ€Ł
Not looking for a debate neither, but why isn't migration a positive concept that helps the development of the country? Because people living in it are afraid of change, racists or just haters of the Other? EU has a responsibility not only towards the member countries but also towards the people turning away from armed conflicts, poverty and corruption, at least that is one of issues on the table. I know americans build the sense of self and moral judgement on nationalism, but that is just one way of looking at things. Why can't we be sailors of the land sharing our each unique offering? I know this framed, 4d, image driven era has turned us into brands from individual level, to corporate level, to state level, but most are devoided of truth and the shitty part is that we are training the collective intelligence through these exchanges at human scale.
Totalement d'accord avec cette approche...
To question whether people opposing migration (sic) are either "afraid of change," "racist" etc is definitely not helpful. Just saying... đ«
I see your point but this is just semantics. You say we shouldn't fight hate speech with hate speech and I agree. But I think we should call things as they are. People denying other people the right to escape from distructive circumstances are not good people and I will call it as such. I have lived and seen how people in Africa, Middle East and Asia are being denied the right to move around the world or worst, to seek for their children a better life than the one they have been born in. The empires, the "civilized" countries think they are entitled to occupy territories, exploit their resources, make political agreements with their leaders and not grant them visas. Politicians made life not fair for these people with their engagement in territorial conflicts and people living in confort zones get informed from tv about them which accentuates discrimination and the sense on insecurity. My point is we have gone to far with focusing so much on words that we no longer see the facts. Some people should ripe what they sawâïžđ
No, dear Vera.
1) It's not just semantics
2) opposing immigration is definitely not "hate speech"
3) Opposing immigration is not denying other people their undeniable right to escape their bad life circumstances.
4) Opposing immigration is not being a bad person.
These mis-characterisations are not helpful.
Ok đ
This isnât a debate on immigration, itâs highlighting how politicians say one thing and do another. No doubt folks can change their mind, but to do so with such speed on a cornerstone of their campaign is inexcusable. Folks who voted for her bought xxx and got inverse xxx.
That's a great analogy you made. People who voted BOUGHT something. Well I thought politicians, as leaders of different groups, are supposed to show a better way, to do their work so that different aspects of communal life get simplified, harmonized so that people can develop themselves while supporting progress inside this shared environments. You complain that politicians have no spine but I say that it's exactly this approach that turns them into performers onto a political scene that owe us something while we waste our lives with our eyes stuck on they show pointing fingers and feeling entitled to receive from them a better life. We have lost the notion of what authority truly is with all these clowns playing power games. I say a leader must follow the truth and be able to change the position when needed. People should vote for leaders, not individuals who satisfy their egos.
ThatâsâŠa lot of words. Just a few in response. Itâs like increasing BTC supply past 21m once the entire financial system adopts the bitcoin standard. Itâs a rug pull.
Money, BTC in this case are a technology. We are talking ethics, human principles and core fundaments that drive community. Putting money at the center turns us into machines. I don't reason like that. But you can think whatever you want. đ
If immigrants accept lower working conditions, it negatively effects the already employed natives. Any employer would rather a more dependable employee at half the salary.
Natives could always capitalize, start their own business, take advantage of cheap labour, but not everyone is capable of doing so, for various reasons.
Mostly a bureaucracy problem IMO. Immigrants are more limited in what they can do, so they'll always accept worse conditions. Natives can't necessary exploit cheap labor. So it furthers inequality, and the poors have to deal with a different culture they might not like.
C
You and Vera can prove your sincerity by giving me all of your sats.
Well this is twisted rhetoric .Taking an excerpt of a text that promotes shared humanity and cooperation and openess beyond nationality and transform it into a message of hate against people who oppose that. :) Unfortunately you perspective is very liniar, as you very nicely put it- a, b, c ,d :))
Native Americans should feel lucky illegal immigrants showed up on their land. See how much better they made it for the locals.
:)) funny but no. That was territorial expansion of the powers that be. They conquered the land(see the use of weapons).
And still, there are seeds of ancient blooming from the indigenous people and the immigrants have paved routes of communication for it to reach us all
Idem au sein de l'Europe le Migrant qu'il soit d'origine de la GrĂšce, du Portugal de l'Espagne, Roumanie.. rencontrait des difficultĂ©s dans nombreux pays europĂ©eens plus aisĂ©s, leurs intĂ©grations Ă©taient aussi trĂšs complexes et ils occupaient les mĂ©tiers que personne ne voulait dans les pays accueillants par dĂ©faut cette xĂ©nophobie mise sous le compte de *l'immigration* demeure de rigueur dont certains ont exportĂ©e vers d'autres contrĂ©es oĂč ils se Ă©tablies.. ArrivĂ©s Ă©tablis ailleurs certains ont quand jouĂ© d'une certaine force pour s'Ă©tablir sur des terres qui n'Ă©taient pas les leurs...Ce sentiments de superiorite Ă©litiste persiste toujours dans nos sociĂ©tĂ©s que nous appelons *civilisĂ©es* Ă©voluĂ©es.. Avez vous eu l'opportunitĂ© de visiter le musĂ©e de l'immigration ou appris l'hidtotoure de l'immigration !? Qu'entendez vous par la prĂ©servation culture ou d'une *race dans notre monde actuel !?, ces termes me hĂ©rissent...!?
*histoire de l'immigration * désolée pour la béquille
Hi Ava, myself I haven t visited any museum on this topic but I lived for 6 months in Senegal and I found how difficult is for people to exit the continenent. How colonial life has affected them and still does. And mostly I realized that despite being able to speak french with them thanks to the colonists: "education", I learned the most when they showed me how deeply they understand human dynamics beyond words, how their perception is much more developed when it comes to the other, to their needs and feelings. Also I come from Romania which indeed is an interesting case of colonisation and how UE migration is affecting the country because we have the second percentage as emigration after Syria. Also we have been occupied by Romans, Ottomans, Austro-Hungary, and living together with Roma people(indians) for more than 700 years. This is biodiversity even if people are not happy with their circumstances. Also I stayed for 3 weeks in a detention center(prison) in Turkey for illegaly crossing borders(even if my case was just a system error) and I have met there women and children from Syria, Afghanistan , Irak, Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and they created for me a large picture on this immigration matter. Also i did my research on cultural anthropology so the preservation of cultural heritage is a long and interesting topic for some other time:). Nice to meet you and have a lovely eveningđđ
Quel parcours que vous avez pu synthĂ©tisĂ© en quelques lignes j'aurais aimĂ© vous rencontrer pour Ă©changer plus en profondeur puisque dans mon mĂ©tier avant d'initier l'accompagnement vers des projets de reconversion socioprofessionnel, je passe par aider le candidat Ă retracer son histoire de vie ce qui peut ĂȘtre aidante pour un individu pour vraiment dĂ©terminer enfin son propre de vie surtout aprĂšs certains accidents de la vie oĂč il se retrouve perdu et se sent incapable de definir un projet adaptĂ© Ă sa situation ( nouveau dĂ©part). Si un jour vous venez Ă Paris il y a le musĂ©e de l'immigration prĂšs du Bois de Vincennes Ă New-York Ă Ellis Port...
there's a dirty libertarian secret here: countries will always need people who don't pay taxes.
Ce qui se passe en Italie, en SuĂšde, Danemark idem qu'aux Pays-Bas me rappelle l'histoire incommensurable de l'Europe entre les 2 guerres mondiales avec une composante d'une population plus que diverse et multiculturelle qu'on a su diversifiĂ©e pendant ces 30 ans de globalisation Ă toutes les sphĂšres sociologiques Ă©conomiques...Retourner en arriĂšre semble ĂȘtre un risque d'explosion, voire de protectionnisme qui risquent de crĂ©er des conflits comme celui entre la Russie et l'Ukraine avec une AmĂ©rique qui intervient pour ses propres intĂ©rĂȘts sans demander avis Ă aucun Ătat EuropĂ©en son avis
Merci pour la note qui selon moi mérite des échanges plus approfondis en cours de journée ou le week-end
La secrĂ©taire de *Berlusconi* qui n'aimait que les *bronzĂ©s derriĂšre courant aprĂšs un ballon ✠avec son pote Vladimir , je prĂ©fĂšre les *sardines đ mais elle a sa raison d'exister pour un certain grand nombre d'italiens veillissants qui ont une grande partie de leurs familles immigrĂ©es..