Replying to Avatar vinney...axkl

What do you mean by "greed"?

My hypothesis is that that term doesn't mean what you think it means in a truly free market. Or more directly: it doesn't exist.

Any profit you are able to generate in a free market is the result of providing value to someone else. If I take two $5 resources and combine them, via some process of effort and invention of my own, into a good that I sell for $15, then the person who bought that good freely decided that whatever new property I imbued into the $10 raw goods was worth at least $5 to him. It improved his life at least "five dollar's worth". He would trade five dollars worth of his own claims on resources to me. He wants this thing _today_ more than five dollars worth of other competing things in the future.

More simply: Profits earned without aggression or State favoritism represent value added to society.

So I've made $5. As money, that represents a claim on resources. One that was legitimately passed to me from the prior holder. I may choose to turn that $5 in for consumable today (maybe I buy cabbage from a farmer), or to hold it and defer my consumption until later.

Where does "greed" factor in? Say I sell **A LOT** of $15 goods, and **MANY** people buy them, each of whom determines that my product improves their life. As the transactions are voluntary, my success can only mean I am on net adding value to society.

Is that greed? Is too much success, adding too much value to society, greed?

Is saving for too long - deferring my consumption - greed?

_WHAT_ is "greed"? Surely you don't mean "creating and or selling goods and services through a free market whereby those whose lives are improved by trading with you enrich you accordingly"? That's "acting in one's own interest" but one's own interest can only be improved by creating value for others. Where does "greed" hide in this definition?

If anyone has thoughts/disagreements about this I'd like to discuss it more with someone. It's not gonna be her because she muted me yesterday.

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This person muted you? LOL.

After a quick scroll through their post history it is clear they buy into the zero sum all profit bad theory of the economy. Lots of anti "the rich" posts.

I don't support rich people who got there by exploiting a broken financial system. Adding value for fellow humans is a different thing entirely.

Good transactions in a fully free non coercive market leave all participants better off, that is how society progresses. Any 0 sum transactions are intentionally immoral or mistake of some kind.

LOL those are pretty funny notes to see after what happened yesterday...

Yea I totally agree. Voluntary trade in a free market adds value to society. If you get rich via this method, it is because you've added a lot of value.

It seems to me that she has so much faith and confidence in her religion and the behavior of her ingroup, that it supersedes other thinking wrt economics.

If you'll forgive some fairly aggressive (and maybe incorrect!) mind-reading on my part: She would **prefer** a world in which an ideologically aligned community builds a cathedral, either through pooled funds or donations from the well-endowed, in order to benefit their ingroup now and in the afterlife. Rather than a cathedral-building entrepreneur taking an interest-bearing loan to achieve the same project.

Because such a world would reify her metaphysical beliefs, she prefers it so strongly that it seems to become "obviously true" and all alternative scenarios must be construed as evil and/or impossible (this latter bit evidenced by bending over backwards to insert "usury" and "greed" where it doesn't belong, and doing some interesting math to make the case that loans don't work under a bitcoin standard)

I think I came a little too close to making that case directly, and she reacted badly :)

If she hadn't muted me she could come here and explain exactly how wrong I am and what a dick head I'm being - I'm all ears. but alas...