Nostr Web Client

Happy to explain it to you

https://primal.net/e/nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzprx6rk40kt0cmt69qpfnewnfkez6lgx27ufkudqmuxmx5t57t0wcqyf8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68yat99e3k7mf0qyfhwumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetsv9njuetn9uqzqfl6uksz043jfx30dyzzjeukfpap673p8683vnnk38e4t7uzwxmhdlqmhv

Danny, the cyber guy 6mo ago

so then could you please explain to me how this is different than ActivityPub? Not technically different, mind you, I understand that you use a different protocol, but factually you have the same limitations as activitypub, which do not exist on nostr.

Those limitations are:

1) you implicitly trust the homeserver to safekeep your data, this does NOT happen with relays, in fact, one of the core mantras is that relays should not be trusted

2) he who controls the relay controls the reach. an event/note (or whatever you call it on your end) created on one homeserver can only be accessed by who the homeserver believes should access them

and if point 2 is not true, then you have just created an impossibility with some of the previous claims you have made, i.e. the fact that you can delete or edit the data created.

implicitly the core point of nostr is that it's trustless. With the exception of my own relays (which act exactly how I assume your homeserver works), I do not trust any of the relays I publish to, and I don't have to. So long as I can verify the signature, I can verify the validity of the data, and if a relay doesn't have someone's events it's not a problem.

there ARE problems with nostr, mind you, but implicit trust is not one of them.

Also, more can be built on top of nostr, such as the closed community network tool I'm building, which gets away with a lot of what you're talking about.

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Discussion

Big Bad John 6mo ago

I'm not an expert on ActivityPub, and I don't think associative guess-arguing by comparing all the things is very productive.

1. In Pubky, you choose how much you want to trust in how you apply and use the system. It's all backstopped by the fact that you control your own public key domain. From there you can make any sort of system you want, sign everything, dont sign anything, run mirrors and data watchtowers, there's nothing stopping anything, it's just a new web, thanks to self-sovereign DNS.

2. This is nonsense, ALL servers are permissioned, whether its relays or homeservers or hosted or self-hosted. Pubky handles application use cases by supporting modular indexers. Choose or create an index, and if you ever wanna verify the data, check the source homeserver.

The idea that nostr is, or web tech needs to be, "implicitly trustless" is also nonsense. Networked use cases always apply trust, particularly if you aren't entirely self-hosting (but you could in Pubky if you wanted).

Danny, the cyber guy 6mo ago

> I'm not an expert on ActivityPub, and I don't think associative guess-arguing by comparing all the things is very productive.

fair point, I'll grant you that.

> 1. In Pubky, you choose how much you want to trust in how you apply and use the system. It's all backstopped by the fact that you control your own public key domain. From there you can make any sort of system you want, sign everything, dont sign anything, run mirrors and data watchtowers, there's nothing stopping anything, it's just a new web, thanks to self-sovereign DNS.

Ok, so then what you are building is essentially a (slightly different) version of freenet, and perhaps i2p (tho mostly freenet). It's a good thing the world needs, and I completely support both of those projects, and perhaps your too, but this doesn't compete to nostr, you are solving different problems.

> 2. This is nonsense, ALL servers are permissioned, whether its relays or homeservers or hosted or self-hosted.

we are talking past each other. both things can be true at the same time. I will just grant that servers are permissioned, because it doesn't hurt my argument in the lsightest.

> Pubky handles application use cases by supporting modular indexers. Choose or create an index, and if you ever wanna verify the data, check the source homeserver.

and how is this more decentralized than nostr exactly?

Big Bad John 6mo ago

Well, it competes with nostr in that it can do everything it does and more, right?

We use literally the most decentralized and proven network in the planet, that is how:

https://medium.com/pubky/mainline-dht-censorship-explained-b62763db39cb

Danny, the cyber guy 6mo ago

> We use literally the most decentralized and proven network in the planet

Sure Mainline DHT is certainly decentralized, no disagreement there, use it literally almost every day for... huh... "Linux ISOs"

> Well, it competes with nostr in that it can do everything it does and more, right?

I'm not sure about that. On one hand, sure, it can do a lot of what people are using nostr for today, on the other hand, you know what the best use case for this technology is in my opinion? Running nostr relays. Yes, I'm completely serious about this.

Niel Liesmons 6mo ago

:scoresoccer:

Agree.