What gets me is there is some known issue with time coding or something like that which will apparently require a fork, but it’s so far down the track it isn’t being addressed.. Why can’t we get all the heads together and sort out a resolution to known upcoming issues, whilst eradicating CSAM, possible quantum proofing, and get it all done now?.. It will be near impossible to make agreed changes as adoption grows. Today’s Bitcoiners need to get it nailed down now, as MONEY, so we can focus on maintenance and layer 2s
Discussion
> What gets me is there is some known issue with time coding or something like that which will apparently require a fork, but it’s so far down the track it isn’t being addressed.. Why can’t we get all the heads together and sort out a resolution to known upcoming issues, whilst eradicating CSAM, possible quantum proofing, and get it all done now?..
that's not how development works. you can't turn on a switch and solve all your problems. especially not in a decentralized network
> It will be near impossible to make agreed changes as adoption grows. Today’s Bitcoiners need to get it nailed down now, as MONEY, so we can focus on maintenance and layer 2s
making changes has always been hard, since 2010. learn your history
Cheers mate. You added nothing there really. Another throw your hands up in the air guy
>making changes has always been hard, since 2010. learn your history
I said near impossible. I’m aware it’s already hard enough. That’s my point
Ok then, fine (mempool will not display a lot of those in a way you can parse, if you're interested you can verify using your own node).
This is an entire block almost completely dedicated to images. Using P2FK. No op return was needed.
https://mempool.space/block/00000000000000048832c5b83c4fa63f0d40f973f71f43d1334673ca7d450f19
This is a 2013 transaction. datacarriersize did not prevent it.
https://mempool.space/tx/d29c9c0e8e4d2a9790922af73f0b8d51f0bd4bb19940d9cf910ead8fbe85bc9b
This is from 2017, using yet another method
https://mempool.space/tx/033d185d1a04c4bd6de9bb23985f8c15aa46234206ad29101c31f4b33f1a0e49
Ok but surely there isn't one from earlier, right? Damn is that an entire program written on chain?
https://mempool.space/tx/6c53cd987119ef797d5adccd76241247988a0a5ef783572a9972e7371c5fb0cc
Warren buffet needs to be immortalized on chain of course
https://mempool.space/tx/0fc0c50e410b62ee3a316135711116db6b4e728841c976f29ab85e2a41e0dcc3
This is a tx from june, no op_return. Costed 134 sats (less than op_return would have today by the way)
https://mempool.space/tx/fab4dfd9a0c1c37a75c80b90c321ae0b7afd8d1eb350550ee2825f37d05dedf8
This is a tx from april of this year, note, only a small op_return (which could have been avoided).
https://mempool.space/tx/20f6c172f310818176ffaf4e1b17e94eb105f77cf8849224255716c025b53ca8
Oh and regarding legality... This is illegal in the US (no, it's not CSAM), but the change for that was used to publish the wikileaks data
https://mempool.space/tx/08654f9dc9d673b3527b48ad06ab1b199ad47b61fd54033af30c2ee975c588bd
https://mempool.space/tx/5c593b7b71063a01f4128c98e36fb407b00a87454e67b39ad5f8820ebc1b2ad5
Ok but surely there's no way people have been putting stuff on chain before then right? (nobody knows what this data is, it's probably some encrypted discussion people were having back in 2011)
https://mempool.space/tx/4b6414f8695864e6b9cf8b2b0a80fe212f78ebabbb2c056f733c2d16973cad87
(and all other txs involving 18qr2srETSvQq4kP7yBYRqQ4LzmjhtRmcD, 1MaZAHzEFfinRJ2dwK6YtNDfvWMBkiAxDr, 1AgwESN7RKNZtaqzbqu6kPg3RS6C2qCgHi, 1AZUPm5PC5QguquNsBg7HhWUYz5dfm2nU9, and 1J1aR7ayNp9sma8QVyyWGF87PzDU1vp5BD)
Let's have a tribute to len sassaman
https://mempool.space/tx/930a2114cdaa86e1fac46d15c74e81c09eee1d4150ff9d48e76cb0697d8e1d72
Naturally you can use coinbase descriptors too, so let's put prayers on chain!
https://mempool.space/tx/cbbaa0a64924fe1d6ace3352f23242aa0028d4e0ff6ae8ed615244d66079cfb1
https://mempool.space/tx/741ae70ba479389ae1f60e75b779c9746f3968e1e4cd68afab1bfe9b55996c9a
Maybe we should look at the first jpeg, since apparently that's new, right?
https://mempool.space/tx/ceb1a7fb57ef8b75ac59b56dd859d5cb3ab5c31168aa55eb3819cd5ddbd3d806
Ok but surely you can't have an mp3 of spok telling you to live long and prosper, right?
https://mempool.space/tx/1bc87dbff1ff5831287f62ac7cf95579794e4386688479bab66174963f9a4a0c
And of course, how could we forget, the first non-monetary transaction?
https://mempool.space/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b
https://github.com/cirosantilli/bitcoin-inscription-indexer
this is an indexer software that finds all of this stuff, allows you to generate your own data dump to verify
I appreciate the effort put into your response ✊🏻
Arbitrary is different to illegal. I see you recognise that. How the data is viewable on chain is important, right? Is it easily extracted/viewed? Or does it require special tools to decrypt/compile?
Just because something has been done in the past doesn’t mean we have to accept it moving forward. I’m no coding nerd, but sentiment out there is that there are changes possible that can, as a minimum, restrict CP. Can’t imagine there are any arguments against that being persued.
And whilst you’re there, discuss winding back those other changes that the community has since determined detrimental to the MONEY use case.
>Arbitrary is different to illegal. I see you recognise that. How the data is viewable on chain is important, right? Is it easily extracted/viewed? Or does it require special tools to decrypt/compile?
why is that relevant? let's take the CP argument. do you really think that an argument would make sense in law where someone says "no your honor, you see, the data is actually rot13'd, there's no raw CP"... like come on haha
> Just because something has been done in the past doesn’t mean we have to accept it moving forward.
it actually kind of does. actually removing the ways to achieve this would make bitcoin literally unusable. Even if bitcoin got limited to only a simple database where you can send and receive money to addresses, you could still encode that data in the address.
This may look like an npub, but it's actually a rickroll: npub1dejhvetjypnk7mnwvysxw6tkv5s8jmm4yp6hqtpqdejhvetjypns3hyxs3, filter this please.
> sentiment out there is that there are changes possible that can, as a minimum, restrict CP. Can’t imagine there are any arguments against that being persued.
of course, nobody wants CP, not knots and not core. But how do you restrict it without also limiting REAL spending transactions?
> And whilst you’re there, discuss winding back those other changes that the community has since determined detrimental to the MONEY use case.
datacarriersize doesn't impact money use cases, in any way. if anything it HELPS WITH MONEY, because your node can go by with less data actually stored in its UTXO set. putting data into OP_RETURN instead of UTXOs literally makes YOUR NODE FASTER.