Maybe I have misunderstood the scriptures about the salvation experience. I see it as an act of faith in a sacrifice made on my behalf. I see this as a “trust” act. Have I got that wrong? (Serious question).
Discussion
I think you have it right but at his point in history you can trust Christianity because of what you can verify. In bitcoin, I trust the balance in my wallet because my node has verified all those past transactions. I have faith that I’ll be able to spend them in the future. In my Christian faith I trust that Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient verified by the historical record of the scriptures and and the testimony of my predecessors. That historical record and the accuracy of the scriptures is what people like Lee Strobel looked into as a sceptic who changed his mind resulting in his book. Of course they’re not exactly the same, but I don’t consider my Christian faith “trust me bro” in the sense that I believe simply cause somebody said I should. I’ve spent many more hours examining my faith than I have bitcoin and I’ve spent a LOT on bitcoin. If I misunderstood your perspective I apologize I appreciate the conversation.
So I think we are not quite on the same page. I hear what you are saying re the work you have put in to research, examine, analyse and mull over a chain of previous thinkers and writers as well as the scriptures. I would put this work into the “bucket” of assurance. These are the things that you have done to attempt to make sense of what you have thought and experienced through your journey. What I am pointing to is that a Christian lacks an independent process to verify the future event of salvation while they are still living on earth. It’s a trust/faith situation until physical death. I am suggesting that assurances are not the same as verification. That is where the “trust me bro” sentiment came from. Maybe I am missing something?
Yes, and unfortunately that kind of “cheap grace” version of Christianity became common in the last century, and has turned away a lot of honest truth seekers, especially young men. It was certainly promoted though, but so was Keynesian economics and a gender spectrum.
I think the new atheist critiques were apt to reject such silly versions of Christianity, the problem of course is that’s not historic Christianity but a modern secular version.
The deeper issue is that secularism is producing nothing but chaos and nihilism, and its core presuppositions are incompatible with Christianity. And of course our entire civilization and morality (such as universal human rights) is built on Christian presuppositions (this points back to Nietzsche’s famous death of God criticism, accurately predicting the atrocities of the 20th century)
Interesting comments but I don’t think they are related to my initial post. I made a comparison between “verify don’t trust” and “trust can’t verify.” I appreciate that there is a wide and varied landscape of Christian theological development and evolution that has created a variety of Christian expression. There will be champions of many different theological systems all wanting to voice their particular views. I am wanting to focus in on the lack of independent verification a Christian has with respect to their “heavenly treasure” vs the Christian bitcoiners ability to independently verify their “earthly treasure.” As far as I can tell there is no verification mechanism available to a Christian re the rewards of exercising their faith. In that sense it is a “trust me bro” situation. I would be grateful if you could show me what I am not seeing here. 😀
Well, the answer is far deeper, think depth rather than the breadth you are describing.
You’re presuming you have access to truth, and that’s because you are coming from a culture that arose from a Christian ethos.
That culture is however being “deconstructed” before your eyes, and if you ask a philosopher at any university today, they’ll explain that there is no objective truth, you can’t really know anything, what is truth? Some might say “my truth” as if it’s relative. But they also can’t answer what a woman is… But if instead you have “faith” that there is objective truth (the truth), dive deep into that and see where it takes you.
What you were originally asking is verification for salvation, which is not a math problem, it’s a relationship with Christ. It’s like asking for verification that you truly love your wife. It’s not math, but it can be verified by anyone taking the time to learn about the relationship and carefully discern the fruits of that relationship.
The “trust me bro” version of salvation is wrong, not biblical, and the truth is a much deeper (and rewarding) question that is very much worth pursuing.