Sam Harris vs Wim Hof. I struggle with Win Hof because he seems focused around him and doing it how he does it. I believe he has good intentions but enjoys the ego. Sam Harris with waking app seems like a guru and talks about many different ways and to help people find what works for you by explaining options that others found success. I'm really early in my journey but was thinking about the difference between them and our discussion. can a guru still be a guru if they are to prideful or the ego is to large? I understand social media and the importance of putting ones self out there as a personality but to name things after you as if you claim breathing as something you came up with didn't sit well with me. Maybe it's not healthy to mention names but it was my thought of the day.
Discussion
I do like Wim Hof's breathing technique. I learned about it listening to him get interviewed by Jordan and Mikhaila Peterson years ago. It was effective. I found it helpful as a "warm up" to meditation. It is like exercising your 4 wheel drive system on your Jeep or pickup truck once a month. If you don't do that, it will get out of proper working order and when you need it to work right, it will fail you. Our bodies have these emergency mode protocols. It's like intermittent fasting, ice baths, saunas, etc. We should subject ourselves to extreme conditions occasionally and keep those protocols in proper functioning order.
In short, the guru and the charlatan will come into conflict over what the truth is. The guru could debate the charlatan but the charlatan is a charlatan so they're likely to use underhanded debate tactics like logical fallacies and gish gallups and whatnot. The guru could refuse to debate the charlatan but the charlatan would use that as a tacit admission of defeat. If they did debate, there's a reasonable chance the both sides would call one another charlatans, prideful and egotistical.
An onlooker might think both are prideful and egotistical, disagreeing with them both, and preferring his own set of ideas.
Ultimately, objective truth is objective truth, so if the guru is correct but others dismiss him as "not receptive to the ideas of others" or "prideful and egotistical" or whatever they want to say about him, that's their opinion of him and not necessarily an objectively factual assessment of him.
I think this nicely ties back to the whole "judge a tree by its fruits" thing. We won't really know until we explore.
Ultimately, if someone says they have truth to offer, you won't know whether or not they're full of shit until you've explored what they have to offer, and oftentimes, done the necessary prerequisite scholastic work/research/learning to understand that truth in any meaningful capacity.
I should point out that the first chunk of "narcissist", i.e. "narcis", and the spiritual accomplishment called "gnosis" can sound EXTREMELY similar if pronounced so. Specifically I'm thinking of an English omission of that R in narcis, i.e. "nahhcis". That same set of sounds could work for gnosis.
I find this interesting because I can imagine that many who have achieved Gnosis have been accused of being a narcissist. Likewise, many legit narcissists would falsely claim to have achieved Gnosis.
Do you feel there is a difference between somatic breathing and wim Hof? I feel like wim Hof is a style of somatic breathing and was confused for a year trying to figure out wim Hof like it was a very specific technique. Once I found somatic breathing and other teachers discussing it then it all clicked for me. Maybe it's just my learning style but I feel that "rapid somatic style" might have been a better and more descriptive name than wim Hof.
I don't really have a robust working knowledge of various breathing techniques unless you count techniques related to working out or aerobic exercise or swim strokes or stuff like that.
Hof's thing I find interesting because you exhale fully before holding. I'd not really ever tried that to exhaustion before like he teaches. I've done breath holding competitions as a kid in the pool before but there you take a big lungful of air first, not fully exhaling like in this method. When I tried it, I got instant results, first cycle. Pins and needles in like the tip of my nose or my jawline...weird places for tinglies.
I have little knowledge also. Just trying to learn. It seems that holding with empty breath can be calming and full breath can be energizing. Also the rate of breathing can be give calming or energizing results. When you inhale for the wim Hof what type of inhale is it? Full extent of diaphragm, sucking through straw noise, do your lips purse and unpurse with each breath in and out. Thanks for your time.
You don’t enter the spiritual path perfectly balanced nor do you have to be so to discover things hidden to most. Also it would probably be good to keep in mind how Wim Hof got started with his practices. His wife committed suicide and battling the cold gave him the strength of will to not follow her down that same path. Also his breathing method while similar to others is distinct and would be disingenuous to call by any of the existing names. By giving it his name he is taking responsibility for the results of following his method as opposed to other methods.
What is distinct about his breathing style compared to other somatic styles? I'm genuinely curious because I want to make sure I understand if I'm applying it correctly. It seems that even his style has variations for calming or energy so there are even multiple styles/applications of wim Hof it seems. Maybe that's just why I'm confused by the name of it.
That is sad to hear about his wife. I haven't dedicated the time to all the history of these. Still going through my own history with these methods. Haha
Honestly I don’t know what all makes his style unique. Almost all of his content I’ve seen seems outside spiritual circles. The first time I saw him was on 20/20 as a kid and he was making Guinness World Records with his cold endurance. So I think a big part of his brand is bringing something like what Tibetan monks do to people that think spirituality is all in your head. As far a personal experience I’ve always been able to do something similar with the cold at a low level. I also was able to get to a 3min breath hold with that system and had some kind of high from it that lasted 24hrs. As far as I can see it’s a simple easy to accept for the spiritually wary to experience energy methods that were previously only for initiates. He also helped spread the cold exposure craze in the fitness community. So don’t look to him as a spiritual guru, but as a teacher of practical methods originally developed by spiritual teachers.
Honestly I don’t know what all makes his style unique. Almost all of his content I’ve seen seems outside spiritual circles. The first time I saw him was on 20/20 as a kid and he was making Guinness World Records with his cold endurance. So I think a big part of his brand is bringing something like what Tibetan monks do to people that think spirituality is all in your head. As far a personal experience I’ve always been able to do something similar with the cold at a low level. I also was able to get to a 3min breath hold with that system and had some kind of high from it that lasted 24hrs. As far as I can see it’s a simple easy to accept for the spiritually wary to experience energy methods that were previously only for initiates. He also helped spread the cold exposure craze in the fitness community. So don’t look to him as a spiritual guru, but as a teacher of practical methods originally developed by spiritual teachers.