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I spent several hours tonight in an Ordinals Space speaking with them. It was me versus 12 Ordinal fans. I felt like I was in enemy territory.

I mentioned during the space that I don't want my financial transactions sitting next to an image on the Bitcoin timechain.

I mentioned that I don't feel right about Ordinals and Inscriptions essentially taking up 4X the block space, but not paying 4X the fees. They are consuming valuable space, but not providing the value to the miners. They're getting a discount and that's not right, because it feels like an oversight or an exploit. They're abusing the system.

I mentioned that Bitcoiners want to help the developing world by providing them with financial freedom. We don't want to draw all over them.

My main concern was that there are several worrying trends that are starting to pop up and we aren't even two weeks into this yet. I hope that if this trend continues that the Ordinal and Inscription fans will come together with the vast Bitcoin community and fix the problem before it gets worse.

Their main counterpoint was that Bitcoin is free speech and that includes artwork. While I don't fully agree there, I understand that argument. I also understand that no one controls Bitcoin and Bitcoin can do whatever it and people want it to do.

While I do not agree with all of this, I am looking at this as a win for Bitcoin. Yes, it's actually good for Bitcoin. I have had a dozen Ethereum maxis DM me so far and ask me how to run a Bitcoin node and how to run a Lightning node. I'm looking at this as an orange pilling moment. This is how we win.

Goodnight. PV!

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Discussion

rambler 2y ago

GN 💜 and thank you for your service ✊

Benitez Chevez, Wilson 2y ago

Thank me later

https://tinyurl.com/5yej379d

Davito丰⚡ 2y ago

NO LESS NO MORE!

Enki 2y ago

I saw k3tan post a picture of the mempool and had to double check. ~150 mb in less than 50 blocks. 😬

SEΔHΔWK 2y ago

Good points. I am not onboard with ‘this is good for mining fees’ - because we have not seen it materialize. Instead, we saw an ordinal sell for 1.5 BTC - not the purpose of the protocol, and dangerous for adoption due to heavy risk of money laundering. I have always believed that there is nothing you need to do on another chain protocol that cannot be done better with the bitcoin protocol. Hopefully, this sparks interest of quality devs and brings in value. Would be ecstatic to buck the trend of trashy pics immortalized on my nodes.

ᒍEᔕᑭEᖇ 丰⚡₿ Jan/3➞₿🔑∎ 2y ago

I like what you said at the end, they are asking how to install Bitcoin full node & Lightning node. They will eventually realize that they are basically strengthening the network without them realizing it. Honestly, i am not into this ordinals. I don't like p0rn images popping up in the block - the future generations are going to suffer with ethical issue. Immortality > morality

mike 2y ago

At least a reasonable conversation leading to a reasonable solution that includes views from all sides appears to have begun on ordinals. 🤙

I missed it because I've been busy playing catch-up life after being sick. Will tune in another time. Godspeed.

Dash 2y ago

This pearl clutching over Ordinals is so bizarre to me. I mean that it’s even debated. It’s like people who are supposed to be maxis don’t grok that it’s a permission less decentralized censor resistant system and they can’t stop people using bitcoin for whatever they want and are willing to pay the miners to include in blocks. What do you mean by “come together with the bitcoin community and fix the problem? What “community”? What “problem” and to whom is it a problem? Where have we seen that kind of appeal-to-agreeability-passive-aggressive-social/political pressure before? It’s like the EU or the WEF. All this “think about the children” and “for the good of bitcoin” bullshit. It’s just revealed how many bitcoin “maxis” are all about freedom until it’s something they don’t like and then they think they can gatekeep and talk down to people about “using the chain properly” as if anyone needed to give a damn about their opinion.

OffGridSteve 2y ago

I like it, good perspective. I've been thinking about it and you articulated it for me perfect

btoole 2y ago

Completely agree :-)

Benitez Chevez, Wilson 2y ago

Thank me later

https://tinyurl.com/5yej379d

Kim Stock 2y ago

Good Day 🙏💎👀

BTC⚡MATRIX ⛓️ Follow the 🐰 2y ago

It's good that OGs are speaking up for the core community, IMO this should just lead to positive discourse and orange pilling more people about the possibilities of where Bitcoin network can go. In best case they will pivot their ordinals idea and move it to layer 2 or 3 of Bitcoin. The core should stay there for financial value transfer only. #bitcoin

Nostr Bird🦜 2y ago

what's the meaning of PV

d0enakalle🐇⚡ 2y ago

Pura Vida, look it up on a search engine of your choice. 😜

Nostr Bird🦜 2y ago

I found an explanation. Do you think this explanation is correct? This is Spanish, but it is the dialect of Costa Rica, a small Central American country, which is equivalent to a greeting. They always like to say Pra Vida when greeting, which probably means that I hope you are all right. You can say it in the morning and at night.

Muju 6.0🌋⚡ 2y ago

I wondered about that too just now.

Chiarakaparos 2y ago

Pura vida

Tetsu Tamasi 2y ago

Pura vida

Stronghodler 2y ago

You are an inspiration

⚡ 2y ago

I don't like NFT flipping and stuff but it was good for creators and artists.

If they make the fee higher they should pay their share somehow, I don't know the technical or the business side of it.

I didn't know bitcoin can also add files to the block, seems like a very good thing to have, if they devs can make an extra fee for that it will be a win for everyone, fee on eth I think was high and people paid anyway

Chiarakaparos 2y ago

Bitcoin is money. And monkey pics aint art

Sachin 2y ago

Do you support reducing the blocksizeback to 1MB by making all bytes have equal weight?

ShiShi21m 2y ago

Very risky business youre peddling.

Sachin 2y ago

Why is that risky

ShiShi21m 2y ago

Getting passed all the implications for LN & multisig congruent addreses, of which im not fully clear on,

Hardforks are a risky endeavor.

Sachin 2y ago

Block size reductions can be a soft fork. And 1MB is still ample size. Yes flood and loot attscks might become marginally easier but if LN can't solve that at 1MB, idt it can solve it at ~2.2MB (realistically, LN Txs can't make a 4MB block)

ShiShi21m 2y ago

You really think if that were to take place that people wouldnt attempt a hardfork?

Also, dont you think 1mb blocks could end up sending fees back to a point where congestion for block space could be a real issue?

btc had some crazy mempool backups back then if my memory serves me well.

ShiShi21m 2y ago

I wrote that middle part in a fucked up way but i believe you understand what im saying about congestion.

Derek Ross 2y ago

I don't want to go back to 1mb.

Stanislaw Bits 2y ago

They're grifters. They've made money selling hyped up, wash traded trash to idiots and now they've found a new avenue to repeat the cycle.

Anyone who truly believes what they're doing is artistic expression and not either a cash grab or just trolling is an idiot.

That said, I think the whole thing is over blown and will pass us by as the fee market takes over and people don't want to wait for 1sat/byte and Ordinal spam isn't worth paying the going rate to have minted.

Anhinga 2y ago

These are the same people who paint graffiti on the side of rail cards. Unfortunately they don't care and never will.

ଘ(˵╹-╹)⊃——♡•.,¸,.•* 2y ago

Pv 🙏💜🤙🧡

Disturbia 2y ago

Then why dont create a system that wull charge them more then?

Disturbia 2y ago

Then why dont create a system that wull charge them more then?

sperry 2y ago

Open.

Permissionless.

Bitcoin.

CalmHodl 2y ago

Not an ordinals fan myself but I want to pick you up on something I think isn’t right: “Ordinals and Inscriptions essentially taking up 4X the block space, but not paying 4X the fees”.

This isn’t right, ordinal transactions are paying the same as other users if measured by sats per byte. If they take up 4x times the block space, they pay 4x the fee because the transaction has more bytes. The miners always have an incentive to maximise fees, they wouldnt mine blocks of ordinals if it was less profitable than including regular transactions

Derek Ross 2y ago

That's just not true. They even mentioned this in the Space last night. They are paying less fees for the space they use. Witness space or signature data isn't as costly as transaction data.

Homer Hodl 2y ago

I can’t wait for a Nostr Nest hosted “space” where sats are being zapped around the nest like a game of laser tag. Maybe then they’ll realize what it’s all about.

Hellraiser 2y ago

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4759c284... 2y ago

what exactly dont you agree with about the permissionless aspect of bitcoin?

Derek Ross 2y ago

how did you read my concerns and automatically go towards this conclusion? odd.

nobody 2y ago

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System

4759c284... 2y ago

I agree its odd. Its because Im tired. So tell me if I understand correctly: to sum it up, you dont agree with some particular uses of bitcoin, yet you will always support the freedom to use it in any way people want to use it even if you dont think its a good way to use it? And you arent in favour of censorship, Im I right?

Derek Ross 2y ago

I think hits the nail on the head. Bitcoin is for everyone and all use cases. Eventually, consensus will be formed, just like it always has in the past.

Snake Plissken 2y ago

So basically, we went from "providing money to everyone and solving the counterparty risk" to "uploading JPEG because it's fun and I can do it", retarded...