What do you mean ? Podcasting was NOT invented for music ! It was targeted for shows ( Adam Curry ) .. and talks ..
Besides , couple of decades in, still a normal person has no idea how to host a podcast .. and as far as freedom goes .. podcasting is totally centralized by likes of Spotiyor Apple ..
It serves its purpose .. it is a dead wood now that we have nostr .. it is like sticking to banks when you got Bitcoin ..imo
i could make arguments that nostr does fix a lot of the decentralization issues with podcasting, but that only happens if we don't all centralize around the same blossom media servers or nostr music and podcast platforms.
baby steps.
rss isn't going aways anytime soon. it's been around for 2.5 decades.
it's best to build tools that utilize both rss and nostr for the time being because no one knows what the future holds.
My point is #nostr is better RSS .. RSS should upgrade .. backward comparability is meaningful if there is a purpose ...there is none in my mind .. convince me ..why should any nostr developer support RSS ? It is a technology way beyond common man .. it is totally centralized by big players ( no matter what Adam says ) ..and it is broken ..
We're just trying to help people add podcasting 2.0 features to apps that's it.
That means using RSS and we're not interest in reinventing it.
My point is ..it's a distraction .. nostr is a future state of podcasting 2.0.. it is like podcasting 5.0 :-) ..
Podcasting 5.0 rss feed redirects to anchor
RSS is just an XML file with metadata and links to files. There is no reason it can't be integrated with Nostr, and each improve the other.
But nostr is already a better version of that ? Why support same old XML ?
How is Nostr a better version of that? Where is the better replacement for podcasting built on Nostr without RSS?
I say let them cook, and see what they can build, rather than complaining.
Not a fan of XML either, but it works. And it's pretty darn sweet to tell my normies to "search for my release's title in their favorite app". Nearly all of them have one. The ability to use stuff like pod.link entirely on my own whim for my normies is pretty sweet. And the response among the music normies around me (some of which make decent living from music) has mostly been "I am interested, when can we have a coffe". They understand it. And they'll understand nostr, in due time. Pc2 is a great gateway to the heavier drugs!
Despite its longevity and widespread adoption, the RSS-based system suffers from several inherent architectural weaknesses that create centralization pressures and points of vulnerability. It was great before a thing like nostr existed .. but now it is a drag ..
Centralized Points of Failure: The entire system hinges on the availability of the hosting provider. Both the media files and the RSS feed itself are typically served from a single, centralized source. If that host experiences an outage or goes out of business, the podcast becomes completely inaccessible. There is no native redundancy in the protocol.
Gatekeeper Power: The dominance of Apple Podcasts and Spotify as the primary discovery platforms gives them immense power. They can de-list a podcast for any reason, effectively cutting it off from the largest potential audience. Their terms of service dictate what content is permissible, creating a powerful vector for censorship that bypasses the open nature of the underlying protocol.
Lack of Data Integrity: The
Inefficient Update Mechanism: The polling-based model is inefficient at scale. It generates significant server traffic from clients repeatedly checking for updates that are rarely present, and it introduces a delay between when an episode is published and when it appears for listeners.
Omg dude GFY and your AI slop. Muted 😂
I think podcast 2 is great, but the third point is actually valid: wait until a big fish joins the scene and watch all the fake feeds fall in with swapped podcast:value to some scammer wallet. In that sense, nostr is better equipped for the modern web.
That's said i'm a fervent promoter of having phun we the toys we have while we can.
There's some valid points there but scammers are going to scam and high jacking your rss feed seems like a lot of work.
This is where this all being open helps out since you can literally check the feed for the details.
Also if PC 2.0 is shit build your own. That's literally how podcastindex started. Apple kicked people off so we built our own.
That dude is just spamming replies but there are some valid issues there but we got bigger issues than those and some of that stuff is already fixed. Like the polling issue with podping. Send a podping and everything gets updated in like a minute but it's running of Hive so people yell "that's a shitcoin blockchain" which it might be but it uses the chain and not the token plus it's been in use for years and y'all didn't know.
Most people here are still skates to YouTube even if they claim not to be. Gotta reach the normies they say while bitching about being shadow banned or getting kicked off.
I'm loving all the RSS talk around here lately and hope it helps some people out. It's really cool and really powerful stuff.
Anyone could copy your Nostr events under a different npub with different payment info easily as well.
Different npub, yes.
nostr:nprofile1qqsda2memtapc2lykjnd8t9px4ake2stw39lg6k49xj6u3jz3pteu6qpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7qgmwaehxw309amk7apwv3hhwmnfwdhkuargv46hqtnrvyhszythwden5te0dehhxarj9ekxzmny9u6elzz9 thanks! You made me think, podcast:npub and podcast:signature and boom: I can love xml again 😅
Something like this. Yes.
Nostr authentication is one massive upgrade im pushing for RSS players to integrate. Im certain we can utilize nostr to authenticate feeds as well
Your this very message is a "podcast" of text .. your text is stored on multiple relays and my client can discover it .. it is already 1000 x better model than sending XML to likes of Spotify and Apple ..for feeding to their own client apps ..
Add to it #blossom ..you can host signed audio content ..
All you need is ability to play mp3s in nostr client ..
Artist profile becomes a web page for the podcast ..you can see all the episodes ..
This is the ONLY way to make a dent on Apple and Spotify... If creators move to nostr for podcasting .. and biggies are choked off new content ... Then only they will even look at v4v ..
Ok.
Here are the simple specs how it will work ..but longish ..but give it a quick run through ..
# Content Hosting with Blossom
The first challenge is replacing the centralized hosting of audio files. The Nostr ecosystem's solution for this is Blossom, a protocol specifically designed for storing and retrieving large binary files (blobs).
Blossom introduces a profound architectural shift from location-addressing (the URL in an RSS
Blossom integrates tightly with Nostr for two key functions:
Authentication: To upload, manage, or delete files on a Blossom server, a user must prove their identity. They do this by signing a kind:24242 Nostr event and presenting it to the server. This leverages Nostr's native identity layer to authorize actions on a separate but integrated file storage system.
Discovery and Redundancy: To ensure resilience, a creator can upload their audio file to multiple independent Blossom servers. They then publish a kind:10063 Nostr event, which contains a list of the Blossom servers where their content can be found. A Nostr client attempting to fetch the audio file can first look up this list. If the first server on the list is offline, the client can simply try the next one, requesting the exact same file using its universal hash identifier. This provides native redundancy and censorship resistance at the media hosting layer, a direct and powerful solution to the fragility of the single-host RSS model.
## Metadata Publication and Discovery
In the Nostr model, there is no single "feed file." A podcast is simply an ongoing stream of events published by the creator's public key. The metadata traditionally found in an RSS feed is replicated and enhanced using various standardized event kinds, defined in Nostr Implementation Possibilities (NIPs):
## Podcast-Level Metadata:
A creator's kind:0 event serves as their global profile. This can contain the podcast's title, a detailed description, and a URL pointing to the cover art, directly replacing the function of the RSS
## Episode-Level Metadata:
Each new podcast episode would be announced with a new Nostr event. This event would contain tags pointing to all the necessary information. A kind:30023 ("Long-form Content") event is ideal for publishing detailed, Markdown-formatted show notes. The event's tags would include a `` tag and, crucially, a tag pointing to the audio file on Blossom, using its SHA-256 hash.
Interoperability with the Broader Ecosystem: To ensure that Nostr-based podcasts can be indexed and understood by other systems, NIP-73 provides a standard for referencing external content IDs. A podcast episode event could include a tag like ["i", "podcast:item:guid:d98d189b-dc7b-45b1-8720-d4b98690f31f"], using the globally unique identifier from a traditional RSS feed. This allows a Nostr event to be definitively linked to a specific episode, enabling cross-platform commenting and interaction.
# Direct Monetization with Zaps
The Nostr protocol includes a native V4V model called "Zaps," standardized in NIP-57. Zaps are Bitcoin micropayments sent over the Lightning Network. Unlike Podcasting 2.0's V4V, which is an add-on to a protocol with no identity, Zaps are a fundamental, protocol-native interaction.
The process is defined by two event kinds:
kind:9734: A Zap Request, which is a private event created by the sender's client to request a Lightning invoice from the recipient's wallet service.
kind:9735: The Zap itself, which is a public event created by the recipient's wallet service after the invoice is paid. This event is signed by the recipient's wallet and broadcast to the network, serving as a public receipt that includes information about the sender (their public key) and often a reference to the event they were zapping.
This makes sending a Zap a core social gesture within the Nostr ecosystem, akin to a "like" or "retweet" but with real economic value attached. The entire transaction, from the user clicking a ⚡ icon in their client to the creator receiving satoshis in their wallet, happens in seconds with negligible fees.
The Nostr User Experience
The experience of using a Nostr-based podcasting client would be fundamentally different from a traditional podcatcher:
Discovery: A listener would discover a new podcast not by browsing a centralized directory, but by seeing it mentioned or reposted by other users they follow on Nostr. Discovery is social and organic, driven by the user's "web of trust".
Subscription: To "subscribe," the listener's client simply adds the creator's public key to its list of subscription filters. The client will then receive all future events from that creator in real-time from its connected relays.
Consumption and Interaction: When the creator publishes a new episode event, it appears in the listener's feed. The client would parse the event, use the hash to fetch the audio from one of the creator's listed Blossom servers, and display the show notes. The listener could then reply directly to the episode event (creating a new kind:1 event that references it) or send a Zap, all from within the same interface.
This architecture doesn't just decentralize podcasting; it reframes it. In the RSS model, each podcast is a discrete data silo contained in its own XML file. On Nostr, all data—profiles, social notes, podcast episodes, comments, and V4V payments—exists within a single, global, and interoperable data space. A "podcast app" on Nostr is simply a client that is programmed to filter for and render podcast-related event kinds. This means a podcast episode and its associated social interactions are first-class citizens in the same data stream, enabling a level of composability and integration that is architecturally impossible with the siloed RSS model.
One of the things we are looking at is the decentralization of the index using nostr. There are other complications and problems that arise with this setup that weren't there with RSS so its not as simple as "nostr fixes this" but we're working on it. Your input helps.
Also, backwards compatibility is essential. The current vast majority of paying audience is from RSS and its not even close. If we cut off RSS then we are dead in the water. From a community standpoint both need the other right now to move forward.
Don’t say that, I only just got mine working. 😂
I am not against podcasting ..
I am against the idea of making a much better technology retrofitted to old just for the sake of it .. and just to serve big tech .. podcasting 2.0 is great feature set but the reality is none of big players (read Apple and Spotify and Google ) reading those extra tags .. and between those three - they control what around 70 percent of all podcasting traffic .. another estimate shows podcasting 2.0 is supported in less than 1 percent of all plays .. so ..
My point is - you can't win against big tech by supporting them .. you got to put forth a totally new way for AV consumption ..
Technically XML is just too bad vs JSON .. Large APIs see almost 30 percent speed bump when they switch from XML ( podcasting ) to JSON (Nostr ) based communication
Besides ..the idea that a podcaster can live on V4V is absurd .. only No Agenda show can run on donations .. sponsorship is a must .. it is not going away ...
And music is a totally different beast .. no serious artist ever ships music through podcast .. it's a pipe dream ..
No artist really makes money on the current set up…
Apple supports the transcript tag.
Stop supporting big tech but every Bitcoin and Nostr podcast prioritizes YouTube.
V4V is a lifestyle and not a monetization strategy.
Point is zaps are better than v4v :-)
I'll say medium. Some artists have. nostr:nprofile1qqsgsp3h9t6329dlfthcqu53h9jg06scymykdf2ed09gv6tmtk9j80qprfmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuem9w3skccne9e3k7mf0wccszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qgcwaehxw309ahx7um5wghxvmt59emkj73wvf5h5tchp4uk7 has somewhat first mover advantage here, but she's also talented and constantly puts in the work.
Agree podcasts were not made for music but the podcasting 2.0 spec that was subsequently developed was built for it and works well. The underlying nature of RSS is its simply a consensus standard for metadata and reflinks. Music, aside from the media file itself, is all about metadata.
FWIW we started out on nostr and found RSS after. We are in the unique position of understanding the true industry needs beyond that of the consumer only. We are simply in a position that requires us to understand and contemplate vital components of the industry that most people dont ever consider.
As an open protocol, it does not need to "evolve" as the tools around it cam evolve. That's shitcoin thinking. Just like Bitcoin doesnt need the fanciest shitcoin gadgets to be the hardest money on earth, RSS works.
Look at it this way... lets say we want to rebuild the music industry from scratch off the backbone of either RSS or Nostr only.
With Nostr there are no real distribution channels. How many active users (customers) are there? Where is your content coming from? Do you have a ton of artists here posting nostr-native original content? Or are you just gonna snag from YouTube and pretend like nostr is doing music now? You're building from ground up and thats a tall tree to climb.
With RSS, there are millions of users (customers) and thousands of shows (distribution) being published regularly with a significant back catalog magnitude larger than what nostr has, already accruing. There are hundreds of artists and podcasters publishing music RSS feeds right now. All of this with a proper ***dynamic*** metadata transfer workflow. RSS ecosystem has content, publishing and distribution already solved.
And lets talk tech for a moment, two major flaws in nostr preventing it from being usable as a core backbone...
1) it is good with Immutable data but terrible with dynamic data. Metadata records often need to be altered. No delete.
2) Not only are nostr notes static, even if you create subsequent updated copies, its hard to know what is the most recent update due to the nature of relays. If an artist updates their splits and sends a new note depricatinf the previous, how do you know every relay feeding your data also recieved the update? Are you paying people who shouldnt be paid? Are people not getting paid? (Whats your true follower count?)
But that is not to say nostr has nothing to offer. In fact, i believe nostr has two essential core competencies and value-add.
1) digital identity and WoT reputation
This ecosystem has no algos so discovery (distribution) is very important. Peer to peer discovery via nostr social layer is an essential missing part the RSS community has had to slow grind for decades and caps overall growth (artists aren't coming to an ecosystem where its hard to discover)
2) NWC
We have a weird situation where there is no optimal solution. Zaps are fast but lack enough fields to pass enough metadata. Boosts work great but no one supports keysend. Enter NWC. If we can bolt nostr onto rss with a separate metadata delivery NIP (yes, it would be somewhat shoehorning nostr in a bit), NWC, paired with "nostr logins", creates friction less boosting and opens up a whole slew of wallet creation/onboarding options.
Okay ..let's step back .. music has never been a podcast play and will never be .. music is a special blessing .. it is not like anyone can pick a mic and start blabbering into it .. music needs years of dedication and equally important is financial backing .... there is no way a music artist can survive on v4v model .. this is not something new I discovered. It is reality .. that is why you never see any big any known artist podcasting their music .. if you are a musician, my humble request is to forget podcasting ..spend that time in building great music , doing public concerts and hitting viral social media .
With music out of the way , we can focus on talk shows .. these shows are typical made by people who don't need survival money ... So yes v4v is a good metrics ...that's all ..
That said , the podcasting RSS idea is dated .. in Nostr , if you take a bird eye view .. every event is an RSS feed ( on steroids) .. so when you have Tensors ..you don't need vectors .. or scalers .. they are just a special case .. you know what I mean .. nostr makes everything a decentralized RSS ..
There can be a case for supporting old tech .. if it was truly serving some plebs or a decentralized web ..but the truth is ..it doesn't .. podcasting verse is 99 percent captured by Apple and Spotify and Google .. so there is no good cause here ..
It is time to say good bye to podcasting .. it worked well for whatever ..
Btw .. even in hot days of podcasting .. music was a Napster thing .. if you can build a similar thing ..then yes .. light the fire under fat asses :-)
So I will only speak towards music because that is our expertise. We are a music group that runs a traditional record label, a management company, and a v4v only music group (this acct).
A bit of our background credentials: Hash Power Music has a collective legacy music industry experience of over 60 years. Our head of A&R opened for Motley Crue and Cinderella in the 70s, has Blake Shelton and Miley Cyrus songwriting credits, and was the one who discovered Lady Antebellum when working at Capitol Records. We have been in and around the music industry for a long time.
We have seen the inner workings of the industry and it stinks so we set off about 5 years ago to clean things up. Things need to change and this model has potential to enable artists. When you scale down expenses (cutting out middlemen) you dont need as much gross profit to make the same money.
With tools today you can produce amazing quality sound at affordable prices. Serious musicians will already have most the required gear anyways.
The v4v model in its current state is absolutely not sustainable for artists on its own. But it takes minimal effort for significant residual rewards (low time pref).
Its a chicken egg situation. Need more artists to get more fans. Need more fans to get more paying listeners. Need more paying listeners for more artists.
We've been watching this space for years and have been heavily involved and learning what works and what's missing. We need an easy to use one click solution to zap tracks but also contains the important back end metadata. Solve that and we will scale fast. Think wavlake now 10x it. That's the next stage we are aiming for.
We are here not because we want to leach off the backs of others' hard work and jumping in to monetize an already-lucraticve ecosystem. We see a potential for freedom AND profits... and have a grand vision for what the music landscape could look like. So we are here to actually dig and build. Not just make an app or two but foster and scale a thriving ecosystem for music lovers.
Great to know you ..
That is exactly I am saying : build afresh on #nostr .. don't become a podcasting bait .. cuz if you just add PC2.0 namespaces , Spotify and Apple will ignore them and still get your content .. and you will be forced to share your content with them for clicks and views .. effectively nothing changes .. you will end spending huge dev cycles for .. still give your content to big tech and get nothing in v4v ..
If you build a new paradigm of music distribution..totally based on nostr ..no link to old XML thingie .. then you have a chance ..however remote it may be ... Cuz as nostr grows , your content will get support
Point in case
ECash failed cuz it was dependent on banks ..
Bitcoin succeeded cuz it broke all the ties with past ..
