"no it does"
Discussion
What a great response. Didn’t even bother to read the explainer that goes through all the details. nostr:nevent1qqsz4fe5eewjdayda5un2luytk6klujjy86dnfac3hly7s3mnqt09jcpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcq37amnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwfjkccte9e3xjarrda5kutnwd9hx5cgpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt4w35ku7thv9kxcet59e3k7mg78gdpa
I did read it, trust me. It's just adjacent to what I care about or it's irrelevant to ecash. Of course IPs are bad, that's what people have been saying about Cashu too. It's just not part of the problem we're solving.
Sure, but it’s also *the* problem. You can’t say “we’ve improved privacy!” when there’s a giant gaping privacy leak that enables way worse outcomes and the leak you have (arguably not) improved is fully covered by the issues inherent in other parts of the system.
Disagree. I can focus on one thing I can solve and that's good enough. I think it's highly relevant.
Ecash provides really great privacy for regular transactors in most scenarios. We should be building for that. Building ecash pool shares means we take useful resources and drive them into something thats providing additional real privacy to the ecosystem. Sure, in the abstract improving privacy in one dimension is better than not, but if we have limited resources we should probably focus on places where the real privacy users see improves!
You can just do things - without the approval of Matt Corallo.
Absolutely, certainly wasn’t trying to argue otherwise. Tons of people do things I disapprove of, hell I’ve consistently encouraged Spiral (and others) to fund things I think won’t have a substantial impact (because sometimes I’m wrong, and it’s good to fund people to get them into the ecosystem and see what they build later in any case). My point here was that if we build things that improve things along a single dimension (which I still disagree this actually is) we should be doing so with a goal of later improving other dimensions so that actual net privacy improves. Sadly in this case the only solution to the other issues is decentralized pools which also subsume the value of ecash pool shares!
I learned a lot from this debate. Lurking on Nostr can be highly educational.
This wasted dev resources argument always falls flat with me. It's just another iteration of the central planning fallacy. You don't get to decide the most valuable thing for other people to work on.
The great benefit of open source software is that each developer can pursue their own agenda. We can all work on different problems or different solutions to the same problem at the same time. The best solutions will achieve adoption.
As long as we can make our own decisions, we are collectively smarter than any individual. No matter how ingenious that individual might be...
Matt, the pool mint can payout a token for every share submitted to the pool. All these tokens are indistinguishable from the mints perspective. Redeeming tokens can be scripted so as to not reveal the net tokens withdrawn in one lump sum. They can be withdrawn peace meal over a given time window to an arbitrary number of destinations via lightning. Withdraw to many different mints lightning addresses ect.
Pretty clear to me these are wins.
And yea it will take time to get there but being a wet towel about it isn’t going to help
They’re really not, though. Also important to point out that you can’t “just” withdraw all your tokens piecemeal as the fee to do that (even over lightning) would dominate, and the intermediate hoops through the lightning network plus withdraw steps would almost certainly be a unique fingerprint. I’m quite confident you’d end up with zero additional privacy against a pool that really dug into it. nostr:nevent1qqsdy82d7ff0htame5fn20rg0l4zunq8r5un7k5lxhf9tvtmantrdtcpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt4w35ku7thv9kxcet59e3k7mgpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujucm4wfex2mn59en8j6gpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wc9mf2cn
I can disprove that.
“They’re really not though”… please elaborate.
Also “fees will predominate”. Cool hypothetical, I can do that too in the opposite direction.
Also receiver privacy on lightning should increase over time
More Bitcoiners waking up to the fact that Bitcoins privacy in all matters is miserable is a good thing!
The only thing we don't know yet, is if it happens too late.
#Monero