Nostr

Hrm, is that because they don't move the appetites as much? Logic only appeals to the intellect and reason, but it doesn't inherently bring the rest of our motivations along for the ride.

Laeserin 1y ago

Yes, definitely. 💯

People actually find logic more difficult to understand, if it's conveyed by someone they don't like and the arguments from people they do like inherently sound sensible because they mentally fill in missing/incorrect information.

Also, people can't fully understand every logical argument about everything because they do not have full comprehension and full knowledge.

We all have to rely, to some extent, on trusting others and patterns of reliability.

So, a reputation is the strongest argument. Then appeals to emotion. Then logic.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

MichaelJ 1y ago

Of course, "strongest" is not the same thing as "best." People being as they are, those two things often differ.

Laeserin 1y ago

In rhetoric, strongest=best and weakest=worst, as the goal is to persuade a particular audience, not to uncover the truth.

The latter is dialectic and only the most brilliant, detached minds can even engage in it.

MichaelJ 1y ago

Everyone should strive to bring themselves and others up to the level of dialectic. The goal is for the intellect to rule, not the passions.

If the intellect is in charge, then most logical=best.

Laeserin 1y ago

I think dialect is a different art than rhetoric, a tool with a different purpose.

I think our ability to trust or distrust, and our passions and emotions, are conveyers of important information. They are irrational, but not unreasonable.

It is, so to say, the dialectic of our ancestors. A sort of... genetic tradition.

MichaelJ 1y ago

That makes sense. It has to stay well-ordered, though. Our instincts and emotions often hint in the direction reason should go, but even there the intellect has to swing in and sort everything out.

Laeserin 1y ago

Apologetics is rhetoric, not dialectic, by the way. That the highest form of argument.

MichaelJ 1y ago

Experience certainly bears this out. However logical faith or religion may be, some people just refuse to believe it.

I think more and more that some personal experience with Christ—often through other people—is necessary to win people over to the point where they can reason clearly about Christianity.

Laeserin 1y ago

You have to love someone, to really know them.

MichaelJ 1y ago

Isn't that the whole point of Ender's Game?

To defeat your enemy you have to know him, and to know him you have to love him.

Laeserin 1y ago

I often distrust my heart and stick to my head, and that has caused me much grief. My heart was saying something important. It was picking up on input that I couldn't rationally process and that I wasn't even consciously aware of.

It's like a sensor.