Can anyone explain why unions are bad?
Discussion
They use force to threaten corps into submitting to their demands. The belief goes that corps would just "exploit" workers if they didn't exist. But such a thing is fallacious when you actually think it through.
If a corporation decided to not pay a wage that was worth a worker's time as the saying goes that we need someone to come in and arbitrate on our behalf in order to raise that pay. But if such a thing was true then said corporation would not be able to hire anyone because they aren't the only corporation to work for therefore people would just go work somewhere else.
The actual fallacy in this notion is that someone somewhere can deem what would be considered a livable wage and then apply that equally across all of a sector of industry. Instead of letting each individual person decide what wage they should work for we demand and deem a certain level of some arbitrary number as the reasoning for why we need This union to come in and protect us from the greedy capitalists.
Ok I understand your point on wages but is there anything to stop owners from moving jobs overseas or even automating jobs away, wouldn't we want to keep manufacturing here
So you're going to force people who own companies what they can and cannot do with their said companies like do you not understandhow unbelievably coercive that sounds. The only reason that automating jobs a way is even looked at as a possibility is because you create artificial floors for pain individuals to work if the minimum wage didn't exist there would be no need to automate jobs away
Is there any value to keep manufacturing in country or should products be made overseas and you're country just becomes a middleman for products made overseas? I get how it can be wrong to force someone to do anything with their property i don't think it's right to have a government forcing them to stay.I don't think a union is much better it's just a mini government telling the company what to do, but is there any incentive to keep jobs here when they can be moved to countries with lower wages. ( Ignoring aautomation for right now)
I'm honestly just trying to figure out if there's any way for employees to not get fucked by offshoring, if they're being productive but it's cheaper somewhere else are they just screwed?
But the offshoring is just A symptom of money printing the only reason why we have to offshore all of our manufacturing and production is because our only export is paper dollars. But in the long run if there is somewhere else that can create more value for the same amount of resources why wouldn't you as an individual want that because we all would like the best possible good at the lowest possible price using the maximum amount of efficiency of resources.
All endeavors in finding work or getting proficient in a profession is risk-taking.
So if a certain type of industry is made obsolete in a certain area you are saying that that individual should have the right to have that job in that area and shouldn't be forced to upgrade their job skills to keep up with market dynamics.
Do you think manufacturing will come back if we stop money printing. Or will we need to produce more valuable things then money. Or when the money becomes woruthless anything will be worth producing ?
It's hard to know but as long as our greatest export is paper dollars it'll be harder and harder for individuals to make manufacturing here the USA. But I believe companies that utilize a Bitcoin treasury strategy should be able to over the longer term create a slow and steady ability to bring manufacturing back slowly.
Any collectivist action that uses the threat of force (either directly by those wanting to unionize or tangentially through taxation as a means to pay public sector unions) is unethical/immoral.
Collectivist bargaining is also BS. It reduces people to a monotonous set of inputs. Unions also tend to end up making it impossible to fire deadbeats and people who do really bad stuff.
I think I could rant for hours about this, but, it comes down to individuals vs. collectives and I much prefer individuals
Individuals vs collectives is an argument i can get behind, just wondering if there's any protection from offspring
Off-shoring
Yes. Plenty. But it requires more work than most people are willing to do, so, the unionize and that is the refuge of the refuse.
What can workers do? I don't think my company is going to offshore soon just the Trump - John Deere comments has me wondering if there's anything workers can do themselves because companies usually don't have their workers best interests in mind, so you're right its definitely up to the workers
Well said