The behaviour of Trump and Vance towards Zelensky in the White House was disgraceful.

But if we turn a blind eye to the process for a second; If the end result of all this madness is a Europe that is taking much better care of own security and interests without having to bend the knee to Uncle Sam, that’s not too bad. Big if, and long timescale before it can be realized.

And I support Jeffrey Sachs’ view that it’s about time Europe opens up diplomatic channels towards Russia and tries to end the bloodshed in some shape or form - where Ukraine remains a sovereign nation.

Oh, and article 5 of NATO - rest in peace..

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Speaking of diplomacy channels with rusians, how you rate them betweeb 2004-2022?

Not great! But this was also the period of NATO «open door policy», which in retrospect seems unwise. And Merkel was also opposed to much of it. Maybe diplomacy wont work, but at least Europe should take more control of own fate. Sachs has some good takes: https://youtu.be/_RNE3X41IvM

Let me remind you that maybe for you or some EU country it “didn’t go great” because you could have gotten lower gas prices

But for us durint this period they assassinated our best ever president, installed puppet govt, robbed us on Sevastopol, annexed Crimea, invaded 10% of our territory, broken hundreds of ceasefires and deals, shot international flight and eventually launched full scale invasion

And mostly because Merkel wanted to appease pootin, rejected Ukraine from NATO and didn’t do a shit to help Ukraine in terms of international laws

So thats how rusia diplomacy works

Please tell me its all about Ukraine joining NATO (ignoring Finland and others) and I will be free to ignore you farther on :)

Not sure our opinions are that far apart actually.. Discussions online often leave much to be desired.

I'm from Norway - and in terms of gasprice we have benefited wildly. This weekend there was an op.ed signed by apx 50 of our most renowned economists stating that Norway should spend this excess income on supporting Ukraine. I think that is a good idea, and a good start for Europe to become more independent from US.

How do you have fair diplomacy with an offender, that is not willing to talk with the defender inlany circumstances? It is kind of clear, that Putin is lying about his willingness to talk about an end, so Russian supporters have a propaganda argument against the support of Ukraine. Not to stop attacking for real.

When Putin wants to end this war. He just ends it. Period.

Yeah, I don’t trust Putin at all either, but I hope Europe can take more control of our own fate. Lot of good takes from Sachs here: https://youtu.be/_RNE3X41IvM

more to your point:

"Russia insists that Ukraine should cede additional territories beyond those currently occupied, including areas not fully under Russian control"

"Putin has previously demanded that Ukraine surrender all of the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia regions even though Russian forces do not occupy large parts of the Donetsk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia regions"