Why in the world would I part with hard money for low end garbage bar food? Why would I part with it for a scone? Why?
If you want my Bitcoin you need something lasting to get me to spend it. I would not even spend it on a production model home that I know will be falling apart in 15 - 20 years.
It is clear to me many simply do not understand where we are in the arch right now. There is nothing you can buy today that will as value able as Bitcoin will be in 5-6 years, NOTHING.
I think you simplify a bit too much.
You need to include a value added from using a product along the way. Example: living in a one bedroom apartment and be able to buy a house would significantly improve my life, so even in if I had to do a major reconstruction in 20 years, I think it’s easily justifiable to do so since you don’t have to live squeezed in a small apartment in a bad neighbourhood.
But still a good point, and mostly I agree with you. I am also extremely hesitant to part my way with any satoshis I have.
the house point is a big one. if you are spending to improve your quality of life, man that is worth every sat.
But my point is YOU ARE NOT.
If you are going to spend BTC on a house you'd better be building it from the ground up or at this point you are pissing away money even with interest rates at 7%.
I have done walk thoughs on 500K new builds as bad as they have been for 40 years, they are beyond bad now.
But still I think you are still considerating only the money side of things.
We are talking about “quality of life” improvements that can justify spendatures that you wouldn’t otherwise do.
I agree. quality of life is not measured by build quality. my new house was expensive and not at the quality I would have preferred, but it's on 25 acres of land in the north texas countryside. my quality of life has been vastly improved even though my house isn't as good as the custom home I built in Dallas 13 years ago.
I was convinced of that yesterday as my son and I spent the afternoon cleaning out several of the hundreds of trees I have on my property.
couldn't do that without the bitcoin I put into my less-than house. fortunately, from my equity I replaced the bitcoin i put into the new house, but it would have been worth it to me even if I had been unable to spend and replace.
Would love to visit your ranch in the future. Sounds incredibly good.
Maybe it’s specific to US?
Because for me owning a $500k “dream house” is something of a endgame for me and my family and would dramatically enrich my life.
And yes, even though it might as well plunder most of my stack (not that I am near close to that number) I would still do it and then stack again even though I’ll probably end up with less Bitcoin.
What value added? What in fees to buy and replace, fees to send?
Autism is strong in the BTC space.
That’s only a part of the equation though. Just because you spend, doesn’t mean you don’t replace. We need Bitcoin to be traded for goods and services for it to function as MOE.
If Bitcoin is your unit of account, and the sole monetary unit you hold, what else would you use? If we really want to opt out of fiat, why keep using it?
Bitcoin is better money, but only if we use it as money.
So you will make your taxes a nightmare to prove what? To accomplish what?
You'll pay fees too, for WHAT?
I don’t pay taxes and don’t pay fees other than channel open/close fees on my node.
Building the circular economy (permissionless, P2P, uncensorable) is just as important (if not more!) than simple NGU.
If we don’t *use* Bitcoin how can we ever expect it to truly succeed and make fiat obsolete?
Why would I pay taxes or fees for using Bitcoin as money? I am trading a currency for a good and/or service. It’s a simple trade between two parties with no middle man.
Time with my family right now is more valuable to me than btc in 5-6 years. But I hear your point and (mostly) agree. Btc reframes what is valuable.
Says he understands my point will coming up with emotional things that have nothing to do with my point. Did you give nostr:nprofile1qyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qqsqfjg4mth7uwp307nng3z2em3ep2pxnljczzezg8j7dhf58ha7ejgqgzx3h 💩 over his mosquito comments too? 😝
They were connected for me, sir. Just pushing back against the assertion that nothing is as valuable as btc in 5 yrs, but you didn’t ask for that. I’ll see myself out.
Occurs to me that context might be helpful: btc currently buys me time to spend with my family, which is worth more to me than the value of the btc in 5 yrs.
Grace and peace.
Zapping my community. It ain't much, but it's honest work.
Why? Well like you say, "It depends."
There is certainly value in being able to save it, so I agree saving it for 5-6 years is probably more valuable for most people today.
But what if buying that food/house made a lasting impression on the next generation, and builds the foundation for it as is the money of the future? There is a degree of lasting value in spending it and building the tools, infrastructure, and mindset, so that it continues to be more adopted and valuable in the future. When should that transition price be paid?
I'm thinking that Gresham's law applies here, and it's what you are talking about. Using fiat money at this point in time for short term needs as long as it's accepted and saving their hard money would be far more beneficial for most people. And many have it backwards. We should definitely be thinking more about what is valuable and lasting.
You are going to spend a 1000 year asset to buy a house that will be falling apart in 15 years. Make that make sense WITHOUT appealing to emotion or some other fallacy.
Yes Gresham's law applies here. I just think you are misapplying it.
...and yet I'm sure you still buy stuff, and even if you're using fiat for those purchases, the opportunity cost is fewer sats that you could've otherwise stacked. You see...spending fiat is no different than spending bitcoin. In both cases, it means you have less bitcoin.
If someone is spending fiat rather than bitcoin it just means that they aren’t living on a bitcoin standard.
It means we are not stupid and losing money and stacking less just to try to prove a point only people with autism care about.
I mean really. ffs
No it means I am not autistic and that I can do math.
For HODLED BTC you are correct.
To the rest that want to live on a BTC standard, that is a complete nightmare in the US. Fiat to Btc via strike, cash app, etc. is the only way to fly, in that situation.
