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yeah... they suddenly decided after the 1980s to go ahead and spend the money on something it was never intended for , nor which they EVER spent it on before...

16th Amendment was passed to pay the interest on the federal debt to be created by the then new federal reserve....

it was NEVER a tax on americans working in the private sector, because that is ILLEGAL and THUS was never meant to pay for "services" at all...

thats just what they told you idiots in order to steal from you.

DRE 11mo ago

This has nothing to do with the original point I made.

The government collects taxes. It uses those proceeds to fund most of the line items in the budget. But even if you think they don’t use it for that and instead use it for something else, they still don’t borrow $5T dollars a year. The amount they borrow is far less than what they collect in taxes. But even if you think that they don’t fund themselves by selling bonds and secretly print money instead, they still need to tax to lessen consumer goods and asset inflation. Thinking it’s just a humiliation ritual is childish and naive.

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Weatherall 11mo ago

"they still need to tax to..." - wait we are still on the illegal application of the income tax here, right!? lol!

who needs agents when the agency has YOU!? 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

well the other guy said it was a humiliation ritual not me... but since you brought it up I competely understand what the other poster meant and have thought the exact same thing myself...

for an upright man who claims a lot of personal responsibility, it IS a humiliation ritual because the government, in so far as it is a illegitimate benefits and privileges de facto corporate entity that buried its Master under 200 million statutes somehow, as opposed to a representative and SERVANT of the people with 19 clearly emumerated powers, is nothing but a satanic object of idolotrous worship ... and "satan" likes to humiliate christian upright men...

one way to di that is to steal ("tax") their money and then let it be known that you are funding their replacement, flying the flag of sodomy, shutting doen their businesses for a cooties idol, forcing women and aliens into the workplace etc etc...

its not hard to undersyand what he means so whats your problem?

the purpose of government, domestically, is to PROTECT PRIVATE PROPERTY. FULL STOP!

not steal it for fucks sake.

.... "needs to" ....

what in the world?

DRE 11mo ago

Yes, the government needs to tax to accomplish their ends. No one is arguing if they should or if it’s ethical or legal.

You clearly keep deviating the conversation because you are wrong about the numbers. Next time actually read what you use as evidence instead of skimming through wikipedia.

Weatherall 11mo ago

the point is that the income tax is illegal and therefore humiliating.

you keep on saying that "wikipedia" article is more nuanced than the flat out statement by Grace that all proceeds from the income tax "goes to servicing the interest on the national debt"... "and not to the services"...

what part of that do you not understand? and if you think that this has changed since that time I have not seen your sources on it... where is your evidence that things have changed since the Grace Report?

finally, the notion that the "government" (you havent defined that) "needs" to tax to accomplish "their" ends is a meaningless statement because

1) whats the government? and what are its purposes(fed, state, local,etc) btw feds got all revenue from tarriffs for 200 years before black magic application of IT/FED scam which blew up the monster to something that is ILLEGITIMATE in that its "purposes" are now against the people who are

2) the "government". see in america the people are the sovereign.

when you say "the government needs" you need to define all of those things because i am reading "the people need" and im thinking "No actually i dont need that. thats not my purpose."

Weatherall 11mo ago

then go get yourself a copy of this and read it so you stop being an asshole thinking that men stealing from other men is some kind of legitimate thing buttressed by "government purposes" - whatever the fuck they are:

DRE 11mo ago

I also pointed out this is not the 80s because the study covered in the grace commission was done in the 80s. Back then the national debt was $1.5T, tax revenue was ~$660B, and the interest on the debt was around $150B. The quote you shared from wikipedia was poorly worded and framed in a confusing way. You should actually read the thing. Transfer payments include social security and medicare btw

Weatherall 11mo ago

and i pointed out that to think that in the ensuing years since the Grace Commission found out that the money ways going EXACTLY WHERE IT WAS ALWAYS INTENDED TO GO, that is, to service the INTEREST on the national debt... to think that in the last 40 years they suddenly began sending it to all the places that it was never meant to go and which were just lies told to the american public to sell them on the validity of the income tax WHICH DOES NOT APPLY TO THEM is totally naive imo.

the whole problem here is that you are operating under the presumption that the thing is legitimate in the first place, because if it isnt, THAT right there is humiliating and demoralizing.