A friend bought some KYC/exchange sats (Strike and Coinbase). Asked me if there were any ways/methods to improve anonymity (amounts etc) that might make chain analysis harder as they take them off those exchanges and send them to cold storage. Any tips other than don’t buy KYC sats? #asknostr
Discussion
I don't have an answer to this, but curious to see what people reply.
Related: What's your method? Bisq? Robosats? Which is the most noob-friendly non-kyc
It’s evolved. From mining with a friend to exchanges as well as regularly buying from a friend direct who’s far more technical than me. Dabbled with Peach Bitcoin which is quite easy but yet to try Bisq or Robosats. (New Year goals). Have used Strike too but that’s my NOSTR zaps reload method (not too concerned there about KYC zaps).
bisq easy on bisq2. no security deposit needed
Use a No KYC lightning gambling site to mix them? Let them sit there a few days for the gambling site to move around out of the original address then withdraw to cold storage?
Jumping in and out of e-cash should help too
Open lightning channels with the sats and swap them back out on chain in a new wallet
Yeah, plus join market.
Best way to do this?
Boltz is good for lightning to on chain swaps. If he doesn’t have a node already to use for opening channels, he could use a lightning wallet app like Phoenix/Zeus/Breez. The process would differ just slightly depending which wallet he uses.
Cheers! Doesn’t have a node yet. I’ll mention those apps to him. He’s willing to read/research so that helps.
Phoenix and Breez can both send directly from Lightning to an on chain address using their own swap methods/services, and I think Breez even utilizes Boltz on their backend. Not sure about Zeus, but maybe it can too. Either way, let him know there will be fees associated with the swap process. The boltz.exchange web app is pretty good about making the fees clear up front, which is why I like using it.
Zeus is unlike Phoenix and Breez in that it runs a full LND node on your mobile device. Breez and Phoenix can open channels, but it's handled transparently in the background. Phoenix and Breez don't provide full Lightning nodes. And I may be wrong about this, but I don't believe Zeus uses Boltz for on-chain swaps. I put Breez, Phoenix, and Blitz in a seperate catagory from Zeus and Blixt Wallet, as both Zeus and Blixt run full LND nodes, and the others do not.
This is false. All of these run nodes on your phone. Different node implementations, at least in the case of Phoenix, but they are all nodes on your phone.
What is true is that they give you varying amounts of access in the UI to manage the underlying node. With Breez it’s all through a commandline-like interface, whereas Blixt and Zeus have better UI’s for this. Phoenix doesn’t give you access to the underlying node in the UI as far as I know.
What Breez and Phoenix and Blitz do is markedly different from what Zeus and Blixt do. Can you consider Breez and the like to be nodes? Sure. But they're not full nodes with the ability for the user to open and close channels manually, or obtain inbound from the LSP of your choice. What Breez and Phoenix and Blitz do is more like an automated pseudo-node that operates in the background without user intervention.
They are all nodes and will all work fine for what he’s wanting to do. Each offers differing levels of control over the underlying node in the UI, but each is indeed a node.
nostr:note1tu88euqf2hatp50y8lsc49aq3zah4ze6tft7p2hhth6kuw9nmj6s5dwcfr
The entire point of my original note was pointing out the differences between Breez, and Phoenix, and Zeus and Blixt. And everything I said in that regard is absolutely correct. If your only point is that Breez and Phoenix also run nodes, then fine. As I said, you can call them nodes if you want. I consider them pseudo-nodes. The point you're making is irrelevant to what I've said. Your point is a matter of semantics.
If you keep them on chain (IE not the lightning channel suggestions), then you best option is a coin join. I feel the best/easiest way is wasabi wallet. Join market is another software stack that does coin joins.
I'd say to use silent payments in Cake Wallet, check out https://ashigaru.rs/ (A Samourai fork), or exchange your BTC into privacy preserving tools like Monero, and Zcash.
Cost bases calculation is a bitch
He probably doesn't have a significant amount of money to worry about. He's already taken the most important step.
That amount is irrelevant - it’s a good question to ask.
If he just wants to learn the process for larger volumes, it is valid in the future. But it is usually a false concern due to having read some unrealistic text on the internet. There is no point in wanting BTC without KYC and every year submitting all the information for income tax and social security.
Yes, for larger volumes and simply general knowledge - he’s a long term holder too so currently no need to submit information every year in the UK until he realises any of it. His concern is precisely about the amounts, too, which are very open to chain analysis. Not everyone likes their “bank statements and transactions” publicly visible and it’s akin to this.
The State already has your bank details, your salary income and other information. It has your expenses in stores, your retirement. Knowing whether or not you bought BTC is the least of your problems. Now, if you need to hide money from the State for some reason, that's another matter, but that case is the exception and most people who worry about KYC don't do that. -- A lot of effort is wasted on something that isn't important to most people. They even put the concern about KYC above BTC, how to store BTC and their own protection.
What is your approach to buying / stacking bitcoin?
No point to obfuscate KYC Bitcoin if they are American/jurisdiction with tax liability, you will have potential trouble down the road when selling back with KYC and paying taxes.
If they really want to scan their face for purchases they could buy a different crypto currency and withdraw to self custody and use a KYC free swap service. Though make sure to use a VPN or Tor.
nostr:nprofile1qqsgwj2rmdtuy3q572yj7y38sxlzr86usjck02merrevurvnn86yqncpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9uzdmpld is good for this. Pick a non-BTC crypto that stack supports. Buy it on Exchange withdraw to Stack Wallet then use Stack Wallets inbuilt swap services to get Bitcoin.
Also if they are a friend just sell them some of your BTC for cash at the real bitcoin price which is 5-10% premium over KYC Surveillance Coin price.