> Well, look at how Primal and Damus differ as one example. You can 100% lose posts between them if you use both.

it depends entirely on the relay you are using and how you the client you are using implemented client-side filtering, that's not censorship...

> Or, ask yourself, if Nostr were the size of X, who could afford to run a relay?

The largest cost by far would be bandwidth, storage space is insignificant, because the likelyhood that any relay would have to store everything is essentially zero (and that's a good thing).

Thanks to nostr:npub1yjxerh4msvgqf230ej3648a28xhvxjstqr2rhpjt2eelf538e70scnl9d0, and in the future other p2p relay protocols, many of which I assume will be integrated directly into clients (which is something I am plannign for Eve), the bandwidth cost drops as well, to the point where only small, but periodic queries would have to be performed on relays.

Also, I happen to believe that the current way messages are sent and recevied between clients and relays is straight up garbage, but by simply introducing binary messsaging, and possibly compression, we can reduce the amount of data sent and received significantly.

> RELAYS ARE ALWAYS PERMISSIONED, THEY ARE NOT PUBLIC COMMONS

that's a non-refutable and entirely definition based argument that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. fine relays are permissioned by your definition, doesn't change my argument

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> The largest cost by far would be bandwidth, storage space is insignificant, because the likelyhood that any relay would have to store everything is essentially zero (and that's a good thing).

The largest cost by far would not be bandwidth or storage but rather the cost to index these relays. By several orders of magnitude.

Nostr as it stands cannot scale to millions of users without indexing—or put another way as it scales power and profit will naturally accrue to indexing parties to the degree that Nostr will lose itself. And since indexing (naturally) isn't part of the protocol, it will be done in a computationally inefficient manner, with multiple competing parties performing the same tasks, and then falling off one by one due to the immense costs each party must bear alone due to the lack of cost-sharing.

This will become much more obvious after around 500k daily active users, should Nostr one day hit that mark. It's not an issue now, but the initial hints of it are here.

There are only two ways to avoid the more-scale-more-indexing trap. The first is to stick to use cases that make indexing irrelevant (it doesn't help with anything). The second is to accept that core use cases will be those for which indexing does bring about benefit at scale but bake indexing into the protocol at the most fundamental level. Both are still roads Nostr could take.

And there is a deus ex machina that some kind of decentralised indexing technology comes along and is simple and just works.

> The largest cost by far would not be bandwidth or storage but rather the cost to index these relays. By several orders of magnitude.

Touché, but I was talking on an individual relay scale, not global scale, to be fair.

That's a bridge that we will cross once we get to it.

If the majority of nostr clients will stick to being this global x-like (kind 1) feed, then yeah, you are absolutely correct, that's something that needs to be solved, but I forsee nostr eventually evolving to something else.

>but I forsee nostr eventually evolving to something else.

Same here. And feels like the first stages of that evolution are progressing.