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Duncan Cary Palmer 1y ago

#asknostr #bitcoin #thoughtexperiment

Good Morning, Plebs and Nostriches!🙏🏻😀

Help me out with a thought experiment, would you?🤔🧐😀 And if this has already been discussed to death somewhere else, please provide a link in the comments below?🙏🏻🫂

Let's say you hodl some bitcoin at Address-A.

Now PRIVATELY roll some dice, generate a brand-new bitcoin Address-B.

Now, move your stash from Address-A to Address-B.

While it is crystal clear that you control Address-A (by virtue of the fact that you just moved its bitcoin), there is NO WAY on God's green earth that ANYONE can prove you whether or not you control Address-B, amiright?🤔🧐😇

Also, no way of proving that any goods or services that may have changed hands in a proximate time-frame are in any way connected to the movement of that bitcoin...

Consider the implications of this for "taxation" (i.e. ROBBERY) of any kind whatsoever; sales, income, capital gains, etc...

Please discuss below in this thread, Thank You.🙏🏻😀💖

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Discussion

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Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why? 1y ago

Plausible deniability. Combine that with the strategy of never accepting the burden of proof. Always shift the burden of proof to he who makes the claim

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choke_this 1y ago

Or just coinjoin.

Also, fuck the state.

And if you live in the US, read Dave Champion, and don’t file a 1040

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Duncan Cary Palmer 1y ago

Thanks!

Yep, the 1040 is your "confession," and it opts you into their program...👍

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Ragamuffin 1y ago

Im tracking on this thought experiment as ive logically thought this out before, but if you would indulge me; how does one roll dice to get an address.

Ive heard of this, but eli10 for a homie.

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Duncan Cary Palmer 1y ago

Hey, friend... No problem!😃

There may be/prolly are other ways, but I'm a big fan of #SeedSigner ...

https://SeedSigner.com

It has a very easy to use, offline utility that takes 99 rolls of a single die and produces a 24 word, BIP-39 wallet seed that works with all "standard" wallets.😃

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Ragamuffin 1y ago

My man.

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Dr. Hax 1y ago

Happy to indulge. No, it wouldn't be possible to prove it was money changing hands (and in this example, it wasn't!).

Let's just put politics & ethics aside for the moment and talk about practical matters.

There's a question of who has the burdon of proof. Everyone can see that it appears the owner of address A bought something (possibly fiat currency) with their coin. If the taxing authorities know who owns address A, they could send the owner a tax invoice, or a letter accusing they of failing to report a transaction and pay tax on it (e.g. capital gains). They could even calculate the tax owed based on the price when it arrived in the wallet vs when it left.

As a response, the owner could just say that's incorrect, they just moved it from one of their accounts to another. Whether this explanation is accepted or not is up to the taxing authority. If the tax enforcers were savvy, they could say "sign this message proving you control address B". If they refuse, then perhaps the courts would sort it out.

If the tax man doesn't know the payer, nor the payee, then it's a dead end. If they know the recipient, then they could come after them for not reporting income and it pretty much plays out the same as above.