Replying to Avatar vinney...axkl

Just set up a thought experiment where those things aren't in play; it's not that hard. I dunno, uh..: Two parents with three kids, both parents have bad genetic luck (not the brightest bulbs in the box) and a sordid past leaving them very poorly educated and starting off (at the moment they would receive your advice) with a combined debt of $150,000, no assets and no savings. they both work full time at low-paying jobs, one of them has a part time evening job, and this all just barely pays the interest on their debt - some months it doesn't even do that. Hell, make the mother pregnant again, too, why not? They both have no family and any distant friends of theirs have equal or worse problems.

- schooling in off hours: "what off hours?!"

- cheaper COL region: we're already in a dirt-poor area; besides, moving costs are non-zero and the budget is already negative

- cheaper home: see above; with another kid on the way, if anything we need a _larger_ home! two of the kids already share a bedroom

- sell cars: we have one car (one parent takes the bus) and it's an old money pit, not an expensive car

if you think these are outlandish premises, you're not in touch with other peoples' reality.

I think the best you could do for the above scenario is to say, "I'm sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, my advice actually won't work out for you. BUT if you try to follow it anyway - even knowing it's infeasible - you'll feel fulfilled and proud just to be trying, fruitlessly. at least you can always believe you'll go to heaven when this disappointing life is over!"

I'm just trying to make you see that some people will always be left behind in the world as it is today, and it's more respectful to them and honest to yourself to admit this and allow that unfortunate fact to live in your heart as motivation to help make a better world with eyes open.

I also love that you're claiming I am saying we shouldn't try to make the world better and that they are 100% at fault. No where in any of my notes have I said that the system is perfect and the people in a bad situation are completely to blame. I feel like that should be pretty damn obvious, I constantly talk about the evils of fiat.

But what you're saying to them is effectively "None of this is your fault, but also you have no hope or ability to fix it. Sorry!" And that, I think, is a massively disrespectful thing to say to someone.

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What would you say to a cancer patient on their death bed?

"You have a week to live, try to get your kids to come to town." or "You can beat this, I believe in you! Put all your remaining time and energy into doing pushups!"

The worse a person's situation, the more important it is to be honest with them so they can make appropriate choices according to their own system of values.

lol ok, so let's bring out the VERY obvious exceptions. Did you really think my advice was intended for cancer patients?? Come on man..

Just sorting things out. You previously said these moves are "POSSIBLE" for "EVERYONE", in an attempt to trot out a Grand Unified Theory of Financial Independence and Heaped Blame Upon Those With Childcare.

Of course that was a ridiculously broad claim and couldn't possibly apply to everyone. But it takes going to extremes to get you to admit it. You could have just said so in your first reply to me.

Sure, I wasn’t exactly precise. There are always some level of exception. But my point is that what most people call an exception is usually an excuse.

I find it very annoying when people like you feel that every single statement has to be globally true or else it can’t be said. The spirit of what I said remains what I mean - 99% of people can achieve this. If you need to trot out cancer patients to win the argument, then great job. But I think you know what I meant.

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doesn't land the same with the ideologues when you have to caveat it with "except of course in the millions of cases where that can't work out for any number of realistic reasons."

I didn’t say the millions of cases 🤣 you said “but what about cancer patients?!?!” And I admitted that was an exception lol