Anyone who claims btc is more private than xmr is a liar and should be told as much, then ingored permanently
Discussion
Well... It is ... We can also prove it... But call me a liar and bury your head further into the sand.
...I don't think this is true as a broadly general rule. You can't throw a dart at random at a part of Bitcoin L1 or L2 that provides out of the box privacy in the same way that monero does. You'd have to focus on very specific, and highly technical aspects of lightning under perfect conditions that are beyond the reach of most users to justify your claim. I think you know that already, but you seem to be trying to do the same thing super does which isn't helpful for general users who think they are private on-chain buying kyc. You run your own self hosted lightning node. You are the exception, not the majority example my man.
So why water time and energy with a shitcoin when you could instead make it easier with Bitcoin... There is no need for 2 different monies. Bitcoin should do it all.
I don't agree that I could "make it easier" with Bitcoin nor do I think it's reasonable to expect Bitcoin to do everything. It wasn't built with privacy as a priority, monero was. Ask Samurai wallet devs about it sometimes. Unless you are on a Bitcoin standard and forsake cash completely, then you my friend are evidence against your argument.
Bitcoin can be used psudonymously. You can be private on L2.
Psudo isn't good enough for people unwilling to compromise and take chances, and L2 privacy still doesn't match moneros privacy out of the box. Liquid only hides transaction amount and asset type. Still can be easily tracked on the side chain. Lightning is only as good as the people you trust to use it privately whether custodial solutions or hoping/trusting your channel partner doesn't close the channel and reveal information about the channel size and amount of sats on the transparency chain. You'd have to show me an option in which privacy is guaranteed and idiot proof to justify your argument.
L2 is better out of the box... Monero isn't idiot proof either.
"L2 is better out of the box..."
You have a beautiful way of making unjustified claims. While they may very well be better in many different ways, privacy is objectively not one of them .
"Monero isn't idiot proof either"
It seems it's been effective in eluding you. I see this as positive evidence to the contrary.
I'll end here unless you can provide an example of trustless, universal privacy on lightning. I'm open to correction, but don't take kindly to unsubstantiated lies.
nostr:nprofile1qqszrqlfgavys8g0zf8mmy79dn92ghn723wwawx49py0nqjn7jtmjagpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchszyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9ekk7mf0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uynmh4h where's that example at?
I don't think LN privacy is "universal and trustless." I just think it's better than monero.
On a related note: with monero, the sender has several options to hide his ip address:
- he can use dandelion to hide it, but that requires trusting the stem nodes not to reveal it
- he can use an rpc connection to hide it, but that requires trusting the rpc node not to reveal it
- he can use a vpn to hide it, but that requires trusting the vpn not to reveal it
- he can use tor to hide it, but that requires trusting his tor relays not to reveal it
Trustlessness is very hard and I don't think either LN or XMR achieves it. Most monero users probably use the second option, an rpc connection, and that is very trusting.
One can layer things up. For example use Tor in a VPN connected (and as far as possible trusted VPN) virtual machine. That way if one of the layers is penetrated the other still may hold thus reducing the overal risk.
layered security is wise. I wrote the above post to highlight that the privacy assumptions at the heart of much of monero's technology (and LN's too) involves trust. I don't think it's possible to completely remove trust, but you can always reduce the trust assumptions, and make things easier for end users.
In many ways I think LN does a better job of this than monero, for example, self-custodial LN wallets -- except Phoenix and Electrum -- use source routing, even on cell phones, and source routing has similar ip-hiding properties as dandelion. But monero wallets, at least on cell phones, don't even *try* to do dandelion. So a typical self-custodial LN wallet is superior to a typical self-custodial monero wallet in this respect.
In Electrum you can toggle between delegated routing (trampoline) and source routing.
we did some zap tests on this note… we made six attempts to⚡zap this note, at accumulator@bitcoiners.zijn.cool, over a period of 1 minute. Six of the zaps were successfully paid... please check for 6 satoshis received. problem: we found that your lightning address server **did not* properly produce zap receipts, and/or didn't send the zap receipts to the relays specified in the zap. (the zap spec requires that the zap receipts be sent to the relays specified in the zap.) this means a nostr user who zaps you might not see a number appearing next to the ⚡ icon after zapping.... if you wanted to fix this... you could try getting a free rizful lightning address -- https://rizful.com ... if u get it set up, pls reply here so we can do this ⚡zap test again.